3 ms·

Partially agree, the same could be said about the Parallax crowd 20 years ago. I think the real problem is Abstraction. Most things are assembled as blocks, w

Partially agree, the same could be said about the Parallax crowd 20 years ago. I think the real problem is Abstraction. Most things are assembled as blocks, with no idea how the blocks work. It seems like many projects today consist of, A) Take X microcontroller B) Add Y1, Y2, Yx component blocks (LCD screen, motor controller, etc.) C) Add connecting wires D) Use manufacture supplied libraries E) Add some custom code for your domain.

krupan 11y ago
Which is exactly the progression that software made. When was the last time you wrote your own bios, bootloader, os, device drivers, filesystem, network stack, etc.? You don't do that now, as you said, "most things are assembled as blocks," except it's worse than that, you just get a big monolithic "OS" now days install that on your desktop and then you write "custom code for your domain." I don't think this is a bad thing, since all that software that you don't write yourself is available as open source and you can still dig in and see how it works if you want. I'm not a close follower of arduino, but from what I understand the low-level code and board schematics and layout are open source, so it's kind of the same idea. I don't think the processor is open source though (having the verilog code, timing constraints, layout, etc. for that would be the ideal).
- ild 11y ago
  The difference is that Arduino interfaces the electronic world; you need to know your domain.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
    That makes absolutely no difference. I've been designing electronics and firmware professionally for my entire career. Right now I'm acting as a consultant developing a network-enabled industrial device. It's going to be powered by an Arduino simply because it's easy to do, robust enough (after I design appropriate power supply protection), and most important: enormous amounts of documentation and experience in the community means I can probably complete the entire project in less than a day of work. That's what matters. Not some mistaken concept of "gentrification" because you're pissed off at opening up your Good ol' boys club.
    - ild 11y ago
      > I've been designing electronics and firmware professionally for my entire career. That makes absolutely no difference. You can still be a bad engineer. If you find Arduino bastardized C++ superior than AVR-GCC, you are a poor developer. Everything you can do with Arduino C++ wrapper you can do with normal C++. You'll save resources, end up with firmware, written in industrially standard language, will have better control over hardware. > experience in the community means I can probably complete the entire project in less than a day of work. If you after "designing electronics and firmware professionally for the entire career " still need assistance from the community for already well-documented 8-bit controller, it tells about you. > pissed off at opening up your Good ol' boys club. No, I am not - after all I am not an embedded developer; I am pissed that it is advertised as something it is not: not a good tool for making industrial automation, not a good tool to stay with if you decide to get involved with automation seriously. It gives a wrong idea to the student about how AVR works, it locks you in with the platform and at the same time dominates the sector.

krupan 11y ago

Which is exactly the progression that software made. When was the last time you wrote your own bios, bootloader, os, device drivers, filesystem, network stack, etc.? You don't do that now, as you said, "most things are assembled as blocks," except it's worse than that, you just get a big monolithic "OS" now days install that on your desktop and then you write "custom code for your domain." I don't think this is a bad thing, since all that software that you don't write yourself is available as open source and you can still dig in and see how it works if you want. I'm not a close follower of arduino, but from what I understand the low-level code and board schematics and layout are open source, so it's kind of the same idea. I don't think the processor is open source though (having the verilog code, timing constraints, layout, etc. for that would be the ideal).

ild 11y ago
The difference is that Arduino interfaces the electronic world; you need to know your domain.
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  That makes absolutely no difference. I've been designing electronics and firmware professionally for my entire career. Right now I'm acting as a consultant developing a network-enabled industrial device. It's going to be powered by an Arduino simply because it's easy to do, robust enough (after I design appropriate power supply protection), and most important: enormous amounts of documentation and experience in the community means I can probably complete the entire project in less than a day of work. That's what matters. Not some mistaken concept of "gentrification" because you're pissed off at opening up your Good ol' boys club.
  - ild 11y ago
    > I've been designing electronics and firmware professionally for my entire career. That makes absolutely no difference. You can still be a bad engineer. If you find Arduino bastardized C++ superior than AVR-GCC, you are a poor developer. Everything you can do with Arduino C++ wrapper you can do with normal C++. You'll save resources, end up with firmware, written in industrially standard language, will have better control over hardware. > experience in the community means I can probably complete the entire project in less than a day of work. If you after "designing electronics and firmware professionally for the entire career " still need assistance from the community for already well-documented 8-bit controller, it tells about you. > pissed off at opening up your Good ol' boys club. No, I am not - after all I am not an embedded developer; I am pissed that it is advertised as something it is not: not a good tool for making industrial automation, not a good tool to stay with if you decide to get involved with automation seriously. It gives a wrong idea to the student about how AVR works, it locks you in with the platform and at the same time dominates the sector.