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If you've ever dealt with police in other countries (I have everywhere from France to Zimbabwe), the interactions are amazingly more peaceful. As a former US Ma

If you've ever dealt with police in other countries (I have everywhere from France to Zimbabwe), the interactions are amazingly more peaceful. As a former US Marine (Afghanistan and Iraq), the hyper-vigilant police mentality I see more and more scares the heck out of me. It's no secret that it's getting worse, and coupled with a racket like "The Bail Trap", prison industry based products and one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, things are looking very sad here in the US. I'm sure it's not perfect anywhere, but we are way off base with our justice system. When you have to have a dash cam or a hidden cam/mic on you to prove you didn't do anything, that's pretty sad.

Justsignedup 11y ago
Sounds like we're moving in the direction of Russia where every driver has a cam because the cops literally don't care and it's the only way to prove that someone didn't stop mid road and went into reverse into you.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  I was under the impression that it was to fight insurance fraud.
  - mikestew 11y ago
    Fighting insurance fraud is exactly what the previous commenter was referring to, I'm sure. Joe Citizen stops, backs into you, then claims you rear-ended him. Or a pedestrian throws himself on your hood, claims you ran over him. There are montages floating around (too lazy to look, sorry) that demonstrate this. It's worth searching for, as they're pretty hilarious yet sad at the same time.
    - pavel_lishin 11y ago
      Right, but my point was that it has very little to do with cops. Unless they witnessed the 'accident', what exactly would you expect from them without video footage of your own?
      - mikestew 11y ago
        Until the OP chimes in, I assume that "cops don't give a shit" means you can call them, but even if they show up they won't file a report or do anything useful. I'm with you, it was at best an orthogonal comment, I just thought perhaps you were not informed of why so many cars in Russia have dash cams. As to "without video footage of (my) own", in many U. S. states you are obligated by law to call a cop if the damage is over $XXX. They come out, file a report with details of the circumstances. Does it do any good? Meh, probably not. The last time a person ran into me, I called the plods and he handed us both the paperwork to fill out, stating that if he (the cop) did it, he'd have to issue a ticket. Umm, yeah, issuing a ticket to the incompetent driver who ran into me might be a good idea.
- marincounty 11y ago
  I caved in a year ago and boought two $15.00 dash cams off Amazon. I haven't been pulled over for No Reason since I got the cam. (I bought two because they were cheap, and keep one behind my seat in case the device fails.) I thought about buying Gopro, but figured for my needs the price was too high, and a potential thief might break a window to get to the expensive cam? I have been pulled over for no reason so many times, I wish they had these cheap cams when I turned 16. I have never understood bail. Why don't they make it coincide with a person's yearly income? While I'm at it, why aren't traffic infractions tied to income? I gringe when I hear about $500 traffic tickets, or $280 for jaywalking? A wealthy person gets a ticket--he tells his wife over diner. A poor person gets a ticket, it can ruin their living situation? Never seemed fair?
  - function_seven 11y ago
    Can you link to those cams and tell me how good they are? I just did a search and was surprised how many < $30 cams are available now.
    - codecamper 11y ago
      Start a new thread, this one is about the US criminal justice system.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - gizmo686 11y ago
    Making bail/tickets linear still places a disproportionate burden on the poor. If a poor person looses a week of income, it could mean struggling to put put food on the table until the next paycheck. If a middle class person looses a week of income, they are much more likely to have liquid savings they could dip into.
    - mc32 11y ago
      It's better than what we currently have which is just a flat fee. On the other hand, you don't want to make it free for the unemployed --like students, etc.
Loughla 11y ago
Sorry for how long this turned out to be. I believe the massive number of vets returning from places like Afghanistan and Iraq has had quite a bit to do with the increased tensions between civilians and police as well, and has also contributed to the militarization of police across the country (at least in attitude, if not in equipment). Couple a newly returned squad of soldiers who are more than qualified for civilian law-enforcement with a new incoming supply of armored transport and military equipment, you can't avoid the militarization of the police force. As anecdotal evidence; in my small area of the mid-west, our local county police force (I'm ignoring the state and city cops for now) is comprised of roughly 50 officers. Without the jail and office-dwellers, it's about 35 who are on the street daily. After looking it up, of those 35, 32 have less than 10 years' experience. Of those 32, all were hired within 3 months of returning from Afghanistan or Iraq. I never put two and two together. I just noticed that the attitude in the county has changed. Whereas people used to talk to the police they met, and used to interact with them at community events, they don't anymore (and the cops don't come to church socials, community gatherings or celebrations anymore - they only stick with each other). In the past, I have actually invited officers to the house for lemonade, or even delivered it to them, when I saw them sitting at the nearest speed trap spot on hot days. I've jumped their cars when they die. I've even invited them to (illegal) fireworks displays - with no worries, because they understood that we weren't idiots. I haven't done any of that for over five years. Why? Because all the police now treat their police work like an extension of their time in the military. All of them. Every one. Legitimately, they stick together like it's still the military, and always have their fingers on the trigger of whatever gun they're carrying when speaking to anyone who isn't in a county officer uniform. They're driving around with multiple firearms in rural areas where the crime rate is non-existent. Honestly, I don't know where my house keys are because I have never locked the doors. In 8 years. But, they've become, essentially, a little military. They practice swat tactics, they practice distance shooting, they practice how to take down dangerous criminals that don't exist in our area. Why? What does that help? They should be practicing how to talk to children without needing to touch a gun, and how to interact with adults without treating them like criminals. tl;dr: returning vets who refuse to lose the military attitude, increased military supplies to civilian law enforcement agencies, and the shit-tons of money to be made in corrections have all contributed to this problem of hyper-vigilance.
novaleaf 11y ago
I don't mean to derail your main point, but I don't think it would be supprising that the police of other countries treat you nicer due to "tourist privilage". I lived in Thailand for 8 years, and I can confirm that "Farang" (white tourists) are treated better than Thai citizens. With good reason though, as tourism is the lifeblood for many communities.
- stuaxo 11y ago
  In the UK some stuff happens, but the violence of American police is completely shocking.

Justsignedup 11y ago

Sounds like we're moving in the direction of Russia where every driver has a cam because the cops literally don't care and it's the only way to prove that someone didn't stop mid road and went into reverse into you.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
I was under the impression that it was to fight insurance fraud.
- mikestew 11y ago
  Fighting insurance fraud is exactly what the previous commenter was referring to, I'm sure. Joe Citizen stops, backs into you, then claims you rear-ended him. Or a pedestrian throws himself on your hood, claims you ran over him. There are montages floating around (too lazy to look, sorry) that demonstrate this. It's worth searching for, as they're pretty hilarious yet sad at the same time.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    Right, but my point was that it has very little to do with cops. Unless they witnessed the 'accident', what exactly would you expect from them without video footage of your own?
    - mikestew 11y ago
      Until the OP chimes in, I assume that "cops don't give a shit" means you can call them, but even if they show up they won't file a report or do anything useful. I'm with you, it was at best an orthogonal comment, I just thought perhaps you were not informed of why so many cars in Russia have dash cams. As to "without video footage of (my) own", in many U. S. states you are obligated by law to call a cop if the damage is over $XXX. They come out, file a report with details of the circumstances. Does it do any good? Meh, probably not. The last time a person ran into me, I called the plods and he handed us both the paperwork to fill out, stating that if he (the cop) did it, he'd have to issue a ticket. Umm, yeah, issuing a ticket to the incompetent driver who ran into me might be a good idea.
marincounty 11y ago
I caved in a year ago and boought two $15.00 dash cams off Amazon. I haven't been pulled over for No Reason since I got the cam. (I bought two because they were cheap, and keep one behind my seat in case the device fails.) I thought about buying Gopro, but figured for my needs the price was too high, and a potential thief might break a window to get to the expensive cam? I have been pulled over for no reason so many times, I wish they had these cheap cams when I turned 16. I have never understood bail. Why don't they make it coincide with a person's yearly income? While I'm at it, why aren't traffic infractions tied to income? I gringe when I hear about $500 traffic tickets, or $280 for jaywalking? A wealthy person gets a ticket--he tells his wife over diner. A poor person gets a ticket, it can ruin their living situation? Never seemed fair?
- function_seven 11y ago
  Can you link to those cams and tell me how good they are? I just did a search and was surprised how many < $30 cams are available now.
  - codecamper 11y ago
    Start a new thread, this one is about the US criminal justice system.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- gizmo686 11y ago
  Making bail/tickets linear still places a disproportionate burden on the poor. If a poor person looses a week of income, it could mean struggling to put put food on the table until the next paycheck. If a middle class person looses a week of income, they are much more likely to have liquid savings they could dip into.
  - mc32 11y ago
    It's better than what we currently have which is just a flat fee. On the other hand, you don't want to make it free for the unemployed --like students, etc.

Loughla 11y ago

Sorry for how long this turned out to be. I believe the massive number of vets returning from places like Afghanistan and Iraq has had quite a bit to do with the increased tensions between civilians and police as well, and has also contributed to the militarization of police across the country (at least in attitude, if not in equipment). Couple a newly returned squad of soldiers who are more than qualified for civilian law-enforcement with a new incoming supply of armored transport and military equipment, you can't avoid the militarization of the police force. As anecdotal evidence; in my small area of the mid-west, our local county police force (I'm ignoring the state and city cops for now) is comprised of roughly 50 officers. Without the jail and office-dwellers, it's about 35 who are on the street daily. After looking it up, of those 35, 32 have less than 10 years' experience. Of those 32, all were hired within 3 months of returning from Afghanistan or Iraq. I never put two and two together. I just noticed that the attitude in the county has changed. Whereas people used to talk to the police they met, and used to interact with them at community events, they don't anymore (and the cops don't come to church socials, community gatherings or celebrations anymore - they only stick with each other). In the past, I have actually invited officers to the house for lemonade, or even delivered it to them, when I saw them sitting at the nearest speed trap spot on hot days. I've jumped their cars when they die. I've even invited them to (illegal) fireworks displays - with no worries, because they understood that we weren't idiots. I haven't done any of that for over five years. Why? Because all the police now treat their police work like an extension of their time in the military. All of them. Every one. Legitimately, they stick together like it's still the military, and always have their fingers on the trigger of whatever gun they're carrying when speaking to anyone who isn't in a county officer uniform. They're driving around with multiple firearms in rural areas where the crime rate is non-existent. Honestly, I don't know where my house keys are because I have never locked the doors. In 8 years. But, they've become, essentially, a little military. They practice swat tactics, they practice distance shooting, they practice how to take down dangerous criminals that don't exist in our area. Why? What does that help? They should be practicing how to talk to children without needing to touch a gun, and how to interact with adults without treating them like criminals. tl;dr: returning vets who refuse to lose the military attitude, increased military supplies to civilian law enforcement agencies, and the shit-tons of money to be made in corrections have all contributed to this problem of hyper-vigilance.

novaleaf 11y ago

I don't mean to derail your main point, but I don't think it would be supprising that the police of other countries treat you nicer due to "tourist privilage". I lived in Thailand for 8 years, and I can confirm that "Farang" (white tourists) are treated better than Thai citizens. With good reason though, as tourism is the lifeblood for many communities.

stuaxo 11y ago
In the UK some stuff happens, but the violence of American police is completely shocking.