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That's what it may be sending today. What about next month after one of the forced automatic updates? If you authorize someone to take your data, that doesn't m

by pdkl95 11y ago

That's what it may be sending today. What about next month after one of the forced automatic updates? If you authorize someone to take your data, that doesn't mean they have to do it right away. > only "some" 99% is still "some". Regardless, since when is "some" keyloging acceptable? > too much data That depends on a lot of factors. Text is small and trivial compared to most stuff on the internet these days. How many kilobytes per day of text does the median windows user even type? It would be even easier for MS to filter out stuff like video games (DirectInput?) to reduce the size. > I think Guessing is useless. What matters is the data going over the wire and what authorized MS to do in the future. > there needs to be more shared about how this works No, there needs to be explicit informed consent form the user.

ewzimm 11y ago
I'm just trying to objectively interpret a really small amount of data here, not make a justification for or against any particular policy. You're right that it's important to have informed consent about this kind of thing. That applies to Google, Facebook, or Amazon too. It does seem like it's pretty obvious here when there are so many statements about how Cortana gets to know you, your speech, your schedules, your flights, your interests, etc., and there's a delete button for everything too. Most people probably like all that, but I would like to see more robust privacy settings to easily disable tracking whenever it's desired.
gambiter 11y ago
> That's what it may be sending today. What about next month after one of the forced automatic updates? You mean, like this? # apt-get update && apt-get upgrade Granted, running that isn't 'forced', but given that OSS users don't _actually_ analyze the code in their software, it's basically the same thing. There's always a chance of something being slipped in later, no matter what OS you're on. Rampant paranoia and conspiracy theorizing does no one any good.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  The "forced" you so easily dismiss is entirely the point. In case you haven't noticed, people choose when (and if) they upgrade, for a variety of complex reasons. One of those reasons is to wait and see if the early adopters complain of any issues. The problem of inspecting the code itself is a separate issue entirely, though at least in the area of Free Software that inspection is possiblea, and reproducible (deterministic) will simply the problem. Good luck doing the same with Windows (or any other closed software). > Rampant paranoia and conspiracy theorizing Now you're simply resorting to either insults (and/or wilful ignorance).
  - gambiter 11y ago
    > The "forced" you so easily dismiss is entirely the point. I think it's you that missed my point. > people choose when (and if) they upgrade, for a variety of complex reasons If they're running Gentoo, or maybe a small group of other distros, sure. Otherwise, people (on all operating systems) don't really do a lot of choosing at all. If updates are available, they generally run them. The only picking and choosing I've ever seen from the vast majority of people (including technical folks) is if they don't have the bandwidth/time to update a particularly large piece of software at the moment. Of course, they'll update it later when they are able. > The problem of inspecting the code itself is a separate issue entirely, though at least in the area of Free Software that inspection is possible Yes, it's possible, but it isn't done in practice, which is why I said it. That's the reason I said it's 'basically the same thing'. Whether you receive updates automatically or choose when to download them, you are still accepting what the distribution method gives you. There are FAR too many software packages out there for the average person to work out the logistics of reading accounts from early adopters of every single point release. > Now you're simply resorting to either insults (and/or wilful ignorance). It's not an insult. It's a factual statement. You claimed in your comment that a multi-billion dollar corporation who has a vested interest in keeping the good will of their customers (some of whom are corporate, some government, but the vast majority are consumers who look to them for help) would willfully send compromised software through forced updates in the future. If that isn't a conspiracy theory, I'd love to know what is.
    - pdkl95 11y ago

by pdkl95 11y ago

ewzimm 11y ago

I'm just trying to objectively interpret a really small amount of data here, not make a justification for or against any particular policy. You're right that it's important to have informed consent about this kind of thing. That applies to Google, Facebook, or Amazon too. It does seem like it's pretty obvious here when there are so many statements about how Cortana gets to know you, your speech, your schedules, your flights, your interests, etc., and there's a delete button for everything too. Most people probably like all that, but I would like to see more robust privacy settings to easily disable tracking whenever it's desired.

gambiter 11y ago

> That's what it may be sending today. What about next month after one of the forced automatic updates? You mean, like this? # apt-get update && apt-get upgrade Granted, running that isn't 'forced', but given that OSS users don't _actually_ analyze the code in their software, it's basically the same thing. There's always a chance of something being slipped in later, no matter what OS you're on. Rampant paranoia and conspiracy theorizing does no one any good.

pdkl95 11y ago
The "forced" you so easily dismiss is entirely the point. In case you haven't noticed, people choose when (and if) they upgrade, for a variety of complex reasons. One of those reasons is to wait and see if the early adopters complain of any issues. The problem of inspecting the code itself is a separate issue entirely, though at least in the area of Free Software that inspection is possiblea, and reproducible (deterministic) will simply the problem. Good luck doing the same with Windows (or any other closed software). > Rampant paranoia and conspiracy theorizing Now you're simply resorting to either insults (and/or wilful ignorance).
- gambiter 11y ago
  > The "forced" you so easily dismiss is entirely the point. I think it's you that missed my point. > people choose when (and if) they upgrade, for a variety of complex reasons If they're running Gentoo, or maybe a small group of other distros, sure. Otherwise, people (on all operating systems) don't really do a lot of choosing at all. If updates are available, they generally run them. The only picking and choosing I've ever seen from the vast majority of people (including technical folks) is if they don't have the bandwidth/time to update a particularly large piece of software at the moment. Of course, they'll update it later when they are able. > The problem of inspecting the code itself is a separate issue entirely, though at least in the area of Free Software that inspection is possible Yes, it's possible, but it isn't done in practice, which is why I said it. That's the reason I said it's 'basically the same thing'. Whether you receive updates automatically or choose when to download them, you are still accepting what the distribution method gives you. There are FAR too many software packages out there for the average person to work out the logistics of reading accounts from early adopters of every single point release. > Now you're simply resorting to either insults (and/or wilful ignorance). It's not an insult. It's a factual statement. You claimed in your comment that a multi-billion dollar corporation who has a vested interest in keeping the good will of their customers (some of whom are corporate, some government, but the vast majority are consumers who look to them for help) would willfully send compromised software through forced updates in the future. If that isn't a conspiracy theory, I'd love to know what is.
  - pdkl95 11y ago