5 ms·

The two women say they were not raped, and were railroaded by Swedish police. So why exactly should that have been the headline?

by Sone7 11y ago

obstacle1 11y ago
>So why exactly should that have been the headline? Because the actual headline doesn't support or agree with the SJW agenda.
hahainternet 11y ago
[citation-needed]
- Sone7 11y ago
  "On a point of law, the Swedish Supreme Court has decided Ny can continue to obstruct on the vital issue of the SMS messages. This will now go to the European Court of Human Rights. What Ny fears is that the SMS messages will destroy her case against Assange. One of the messages makes clear that one of the women did not want any charges brought against Assange, "but the police were keen on getting a hold on him". She was "shocked" when they arrested him because she only "wanted him to take [an HIV] test". She "did not want to accuse JA of anything" and "it was the police who made up the charges". (In a witness statement, she is quoted as saying that she had been "railroaded by police and others around her".) Neither woman claimed she had been raped. Indeed, both have denied they were raped and one of them has since tweeted, "I have not been raped." -from http://johnpilger.com/articles/assange-the-untold-story-of-an-epic-struggle-for-justice http://johnpilger.com/articles/assange-the-untold-story-of-a...
  - hahainternet 11y ago
    I can't find any primary sources for the witness statement quote. Do you have anything with direct citations? Obviously googling for this is almost impossible.
    - pfg 11y ago
      Here's the full protocol in english: http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/docs/protocol.pdf http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/docs/protocol.pdf
      - hahainternet 11y ago
        The quoted section does not appear in this document. It makes pretty nasty reading too.
hedwall 11y ago
Yes, but the state can arrest you for rape in Sweden. It doesn't have to be an accusation coming from any of the victims.
- wavefunction 11y ago
  Certainly, but if the victims in the case don't feel that they've been raped, perhaps that's more important than the technicalities of what the State may or may not do.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - afarrell 11y ago
    Rape is a crime defined by its elements, not by whether or not the victim feels they were wronged. With all crimes, if a person commits a certain act with a certain intent/state of mind, they've committed a crime and the victim's feelings on the matter are irrelevant. Now, in a rape case, without the cooperation and testimony of the victim it is very hard to present enough evidence to convict a jury that the government has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime's elements were all present. If rape was defined just be whether or not the victim felt it was rape, the victim could change their mind after-the-fact and Assange would go from not-rapist to rapist (and possibly to not-rapist again) based on not on their own actions by based on someone's feelings of guilt, anger, intimidation, or forgiveness a month from the act. This only makes any sense if you view crimes as being individual injuries to one person. But that isn't how criminal law works. If I walk up to you in the middle of a hackathon and stab you in the forearm, I have indeed harmed you and you can sue me for damages in civil court. However, I have also harmed society, specifically that part of society where people assume they can go to hackathon a without being stabbed. A great source to learn about the fundamentals of criminal law and criminal procedure is this page maintained by a former prosecutor who now works as s defense attorney in NYC. http://lawcomic.net/guide/?page_id=5 http://lawcomic.net/guide/?page_id=5 All of this should also apply on a smaller scale to communities with Codes of Conduct: http://thebias.com/2015/08/12/take-responsibility-for-handling-abuse/ http://thebias.com/2015/08/12/take-responsibility-for-handli... EDIT: I am not a lawyer and comments from a random person on the Internet do not establish an a attourney-client relationship. For actual advice about criminal or international law, please contact Nathan Burney, an actual lawyer who also happens to maintain the illustrated educational resource that I've linked to and I think is fantastic.

The two women say they were not raped, and were railroaded by Swedish police. So why exactly should that have been the headline?

by Sone7 11y ago

The two women say they were not raped, and were railroaded by Swedish police. So why exactly should that have been the headline?

obstacle1 11y ago

>So why exactly should that have been the headline? Because the actual headline doesn't support or agree with the SJW agenda.

hahainternet 11y ago

[citation-needed]

Sone7 11y ago
"On a point of law, the Swedish Supreme Court has decided Ny can continue to obstruct on the vital issue of the SMS messages. This will now go to the European Court of Human Rights. What Ny fears is that the SMS messages will destroy her case against Assange. One of the messages makes clear that one of the women did not want any charges brought against Assange, "but the police were keen on getting a hold on him". She was "shocked" when they arrested him because she only "wanted him to take [an HIV] test". She "did not want to accuse JA of anything" and "it was the police who made up the charges". (In a witness statement, she is quoted as saying that she had been "railroaded by police and others around her".) Neither woman claimed she had been raped. Indeed, both have denied they were raped and one of them has since tweeted, "I have not been raped." -from http://johnpilger.com/articles/assange-the-untold-story-of-an-epic-struggle-for-justice http://johnpilger.com/articles/assange-the-untold-story-of-a...
- hahainternet 11y ago
  I can't find any primary sources for the witness statement quote. Do you have anything with direct citations? Obviously googling for this is almost impossible.
  - pfg 11y ago
    Here's the full protocol in english: http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/docs/protocol.pdf http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/docs/protocol.pdf
    - hahainternet 11y ago
      The quoted section does not appear in this document. It makes pretty nasty reading too.

hedwall 11y ago

Yes, but the state can arrest you for rape in Sweden. It doesn't have to be an accusation coming from any of the victims.

wavefunction 11y ago
Certainly, but if the victims in the case don't feel that they've been raped, perhaps that's more important than the technicalities of what the State may or may not do.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- afarrell 11y ago
  Rape is a crime defined by its elements, not by whether or not the victim feels they were wronged. With all crimes, if a person commits a certain act with a certain intent/state of mind, they've committed a crime and the victim's feelings on the matter are irrelevant. Now, in a rape case, without the cooperation and testimony of the victim it is very hard to present enough evidence to convict a jury that the government has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime's elements were all present. If rape was defined just be whether or not the victim felt it was rape, the victim could change their mind after-the-fact and Assange would go from not-rapist to rapist (and possibly to not-rapist again) based on not on their own actions by based on someone's feelings of guilt, anger, intimidation, or forgiveness a month from the act. This only makes any sense if you view crimes as being individual injuries to one person. But that isn't how criminal law works. If I walk up to you in the middle of a hackathon and stab you in the forearm, I have indeed harmed you and you can sue me for damages in civil court. However, I have also harmed society, specifically that part of society where people assume they can go to hackathon a without being stabbed. A great source to learn about the fundamentals of criminal law and criminal procedure is this page maintained by a former prosecutor who now works as s defense attorney in NYC. http://lawcomic.net/guide/?page_id=5 http://lawcomic.net/guide/?page_id=5 All of this should also apply on a smaller scale to communities with Codes of Conduct: http://thebias.com/2015/08/12/take-responsibility-for-handling-abuse/ http://thebias.com/2015/08/12/take-responsibility-for-handli... EDIT: I am not a lawyer and comments from a random person on the Internet do not establish an a attourney-client relationship. For actual advice about criminal or international law, please contact Nathan Burney, an actual lawyer who also happens to maintain the illustrated educational resource that I've linked to and I think is fantastic.