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So: In the writer's own words, she did not respond honestly to his advances as she hoped to advance her career through his acquaintance: > While I tried to po

So: In the writer's own words, she did not respond honestly to his advances as she hoped to advance her career through his acquaintance: > While I tried to politely decline his advances, he was in a position of power over me in this industry. He said he knew my bosses, he knew where I worked, and he promised he’d help advance my career. I felt it best to stay in his “good graces” and not be flat out rude. She did finally realize her mistake: > I now understand how wrong this dynamic is. And responded as she should have first. With the result that he stopped pestering her: > We haven’t spoken for over a year, as the last time I saw him I finally had the courage and support system to be direct, cold, and tell him to leave me alone. In my book, the guy's a bit of a thickie and a more than a little creepy. Eww. But she, by her explicit admission, did not let him know his advances were unwanted in a "direct, cold" way because SHE HOPED TO GAIN FINANCIALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY BY DOING SO. In a nutshell: He clumsily tried to get laid and she strung him along for what she could get out of him. Eww. Running book on how long that post stays up before she edits it.

Frondo 11y ago
She turned him down, and you're saying she didn't turn him down firmly enough, and did so to string him along? Why does that sound like a variation on "she was asking for it, she didn't fight back hard enough" or any other kind of victim-blaming?
- meric 11y ago
  Putting aside everything else on the blog post, because the conference organisers seem inept - As long there are "wanted advances" in workplaces, there will be "unwanted advances" also. To eliminate "unwanted advances", you must eliminate "advances" in general. For example: if she found him hot, we wouldn't be reading this post. As long as "advances" are still permitted in the workplace, there needs to be social education in the corporate environment so that "brush-offs" aren't interpreted as "try harder".
  - Retra 11y ago
    >For example: if she found him hot, we wouldn't be reading this post. You don't know that. It is an unreasonable and unfair assumption, and reflects the expectation of your own immaturity as a gold standard.
    - meric 11y ago
      Your comment only serves to distract from the point - No woman is going to post a blog post talking about "wanted advances", even though we know they exist, from friends we know who met in workplaces.
  - interpol_p 11y ago
    I don't think "advances" are bad. This woman experienced continuous harassment after politely declining an "advance." That's where things should have ended, but didn't. The fact that we need to suggest social education to educate professionals in the workplace about when a person is not interested in them is kind of shocking. It should be considered basic communication skills.
    - meric 11y ago
      There's no formal education for basic communication skills. We rely on informal methods such as talking to friends and family, but there will always be people who miss out on practicing on one or more aspects of socialising with women. And they will be the harassers. I don't think shaming them and locking them up straight away is the way to go. I have had crushes on various females since primary and secondary school. The first one or two instances you could almost say I too had harassed someone. It wasn't until I had more experience "advancing" I finally got when girls want you to continue and when they don't. Not everyone is lucky they pick this skill up early, even as I wish I got the hang of it earlier than I did.
      - interpol_p 11y ago
        Sure, everyone has had embarrassing social experiences. But we are discussing grown professionals who are speaking at conferences. Not children in school. And this isn't a case of not knowing how to act socially, it's actual aggression and harassing behaviour when he doesn't get what he wants. On a side note, there are formal communication skills courses in education. My university had a course called "Communication Skills for Engineering" or something like that. It was a mandatory short course for anyone in engineering, maths and computer science.
- coldtea 11y ago
  If people stopped pursuing people who "turned them down" at first, then half of the world's children would be unborn, and half of the marriages/relationships would have never happened. Literally. Ask how many people's husbands or wives turned each other down a first, and din't have to ask a few times, and even do some stupid things (down to a serenade on a case I know, but there are far more involved cases), to earn each other's love. Or read 100 or 1000 biographies and note down how often this happens. It might sound difficult for litigation and PC-heavy us protestants to hear, where everyone is a victim, everything should be regulated and people should only approach each other with laywers or gloves and full body armors, but it's the way of the world. Except if you think that every relationship starts as "love at first sight". Now, if she had turned him down "firmly" that's another thing. But a simple turndown that might sound like it might be overcome might not be enough.
  - tomlock 11y ago
    >>He started to get angry with me and reply with things like “fuck you” and sometimes up to 8 texts in a row when I wouldn’t reply or would decline. Given the above section, does this situation sound "PC-heavy" to you? The guy literally texted abuse at a person because they didn't respond to his advances. The fact that this person was scared or didn't want to cut professional ties is evidence that something is wrong here with the situation, and not the person themselves. How do we live in a society where people fear saying no to a harasser, and people still seem to come in to bat for those harassers?
    - coldtea 11y ago
      >Given the above section, does this situation sound "PC-heavy" to you? No, such strong language + repeatedly declining to answer I think carries the message perfectly accurately. He should have got it. P.S. Although, I can see how "fuck you" can be seen as a double-message by the guy (only joking).
      - interpol_p 11y ago
        It was the guy who texted "fuck you" when she didn't reply to his horrible comments.
interpol_p 11y ago
> And responded as she should have first. With the result that he stopped pestering her She responded correctly at the beginning: she politely declined his advances. He didn't get the point. He didn't stop bothering her. That's not on her, and it's not something we blame her for. > because SHE HOPED TO GAIN FINANCIALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY BY DOING SO. You shout the last bit as if you're angry that this woman didn't want to destroy her professional career over putting up with her harasser. That's disgusting. She should never have been put in that situation to begin with. The fact that she politely declined this man's advances from the beginning should have been the end of it. It is preposterous that you can blame this woman for not being outright aggressive and cold to her harasser when that is an extremely hard thing to do — especially if it involves souring a professional relationship and hurting your career.
prolways 11y ago
Even if you're right (which I disagree) you need to be way more tactful with this type of thing or you stoke the "programming is misogynist" fire. Responding more directly: > "I tried to politely decline" > she strung him along It could be interesting to see the exact conversations, but I don't think she "strung him along" as much as just never told him to stop "forcefully enough". Regardless, even if she had been banging the guy, stop means stop. Besides that, she shouldn't have had to decline anything in the first place... This is why you don't ask out women in professional settings: there is no good way for them to say "no".
Mz 11y ago
You are all kinds of wrong. Unfortunately, I am about to log off, so I do not have time to explain why in any kind of substantive way. The nutshell version is that this is such a rampant problem, women can either try to be polite and diplomatic in the face of it or outright starve. A woman essentially cannot make money at all without putting up with this shit to some degree. We need better answers than always blaming the victim. Some men are so powerful, you essentially cannot avoid them and keep working in your industry. If a man like that sees you as just a piece of ass, even crazy levels of diplomatic skill will not shield you from negative repercussions.
butthackerz 11y ago
> she strung him along for what she could get out of him. If by "stringing him along" you mean declined every single advance made by him. "No thanks" should be more than enough.
- Asbostos 11y ago
  The difficulty is that a woman who really is interested in the guy would also often politely decline all his advances, knowing that she's egging in on in some other way. It's how people flirt. If a woman says no, how can you distinguish "really no" from "I like being chased, more please"? PC people will claim it's always the former, but actual couples often got together in the latter way.
  - interpol_p 11y ago
    Because it's pretty damn obvious when someone doesn't like you versus when they are being playfully coy. If you can't tell then just back off and assume they are not interested. Because if you can't tell then they are probably not interested.

Frondo 11y ago

She turned him down, and you're saying she didn't turn him down firmly enough, and did so to string him along? Why does that sound like a variation on "she was asking for it, she didn't fight back hard enough" or any other kind of victim-blaming?

meric 11y ago
Putting aside everything else on the blog post, because the conference organisers seem inept - As long there are "wanted advances" in workplaces, there will be "unwanted advances" also. To eliminate "unwanted advances", you must eliminate "advances" in general. For example: if she found him hot, we wouldn't be reading this post. As long as "advances" are still permitted in the workplace, there needs to be social education in the corporate environment so that "brush-offs" aren't interpreted as "try harder".
- Retra 11y ago
  >For example: if she found him hot, we wouldn't be reading this post. You don't know that. It is an unreasonable and unfair assumption, and reflects the expectation of your own immaturity as a gold standard.
  - meric 11y ago
    Your comment only serves to distract from the point - No woman is going to post a blog post talking about "wanted advances", even though we know they exist, from friends we know who met in workplaces.
- interpol_p 11y ago
  I don't think "advances" are bad. This woman experienced continuous harassment after politely declining an "advance." That's where things should have ended, but didn't. The fact that we need to suggest social education to educate professionals in the workplace about when a person is not interested in them is kind of shocking. It should be considered basic communication skills.
  - meric 11y ago
    There's no formal education for basic communication skills. We rely on informal methods such as talking to friends and family, but there will always be people who miss out on practicing on one or more aspects of socialising with women. And they will be the harassers. I don't think shaming them and locking them up straight away is the way to go. I have had crushes on various females since primary and secondary school. The first one or two instances you could almost say I too had harassed someone. It wasn't until I had more experience "advancing" I finally got when girls want you to continue and when they don't. Not everyone is lucky they pick this skill up early, even as I wish I got the hang of it earlier than I did.
    - interpol_p 11y ago
      Sure, everyone has had embarrassing social experiences. But we are discussing grown professionals who are speaking at conferences. Not children in school. And this isn't a case of not knowing how to act socially, it's actual aggression and harassing behaviour when he doesn't get what he wants. On a side note, there are formal communication skills courses in education. My university had a course called "Communication Skills for Engineering" or something like that. It was a mandatory short course for anyone in engineering, maths and computer science.
coldtea 11y ago
If people stopped pursuing people who "turned them down" at first, then half of the world's children would be unborn, and half of the marriages/relationships would have never happened. Literally. Ask how many people's husbands or wives turned each other down a first, and din't have to ask a few times, and even do some stupid things (down to a serenade on a case I know, but there are far more involved cases), to earn each other's love. Or read 100 or 1000 biographies and note down how often this happens. It might sound difficult for litigation and PC-heavy us protestants to hear, where everyone is a victim, everything should be regulated and people should only approach each other with laywers or gloves and full body armors, but it's the way of the world. Except if you think that every relationship starts as "love at first sight". Now, if she had turned him down "firmly" that's another thing. But a simple turndown that might sound like it might be overcome might not be enough.
- tomlock 11y ago
  >>He started to get angry with me and reply with things like “fuck you” and sometimes up to 8 texts in a row when I wouldn’t reply or would decline. Given the above section, does this situation sound "PC-heavy" to you? The guy literally texted abuse at a person because they didn't respond to his advances. The fact that this person was scared or didn't want to cut professional ties is evidence that something is wrong here with the situation, and not the person themselves. How do we live in a society where people fear saying no to a harasser, and people still seem to come in to bat for those harassers?
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >Given the above section, does this situation sound "PC-heavy" to you? No, such strong language + repeatedly declining to answer I think carries the message perfectly accurately. He should have got it. P.S. Although, I can see how "fuck you" can be seen as a double-message by the guy (only joking).
    - interpol_p 11y ago
      It was the guy who texted "fuck you" when she didn't reply to his horrible comments.

interpol_p 11y ago

> And responded as she should have first. With the result that he stopped pestering her She responded correctly at the beginning: she politely declined his advances. He didn't get the point. He didn't stop bothering her. That's not on her, and it's not something we blame her for. > because SHE HOPED TO GAIN FINANCIALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY BY DOING SO. You shout the last bit as if you're angry that this woman didn't want to destroy her professional career over putting up with her harasser. That's disgusting. She should never have been put in that situation to begin with. The fact that she politely declined this man's advances from the beginning should have been the end of it. It is preposterous that you can blame this woman for not being outright aggressive and cold to her harasser when that is an extremely hard thing to do — especially if it involves souring a professional relationship and hurting your career.

prolways 11y ago

Even if you're right (which I disagree) you need to be way more tactful with this type of thing or you stoke the "programming is misogynist" fire. Responding more directly: > "I tried to politely decline" > she strung him along It could be interesting to see the exact conversations, but I don't think she "strung him along" as much as just never told him to stop "forcefully enough". Regardless, even if she had been banging the guy, stop means stop. Besides that, she shouldn't have had to decline anything in the first place... This is why you don't ask out women in professional settings: there is no good way for them to say "no".

Mz 11y ago

You are all kinds of wrong. Unfortunately, I am about to log off, so I do not have time to explain why in any kind of substantive way. The nutshell version is that this is such a rampant problem, women can either try to be polite and diplomatic in the face of it or outright starve. A woman essentially cannot make money at all without putting up with this shit to some degree. We need better answers than always blaming the victim. Some men are so powerful, you essentially cannot avoid them and keep working in your industry. If a man like that sees you as just a piece of ass, even crazy levels of diplomatic skill will not shield you from negative repercussions.

butthackerz 11y ago

> she strung him along for what she could get out of him. If by "stringing him along" you mean declined every single advance made by him. "No thanks" should be more than enough.

Asbostos 11y ago
The difficulty is that a woman who really is interested in the guy would also often politely decline all his advances, knowing that she's egging in on in some other way. It's how people flirt. If a woman says no, how can you distinguish "really no" from "I like being chased, more please"? PC people will claim it's always the former, but actual couples often got together in the latter way.
- interpol_p 11y ago
  Because it's pretty damn obvious when someone doesn't like you versus when they are being playfully coy. If you can't tell then just back off and assume they are not interested. Because if you can't tell then they are probably not interested.