5 ms·

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

by s73v3r 11y ago

IkmoIkmo 11y ago
I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea. The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I think we both can guess they spent more than half of their time developing the game, and even though one can find examples where merchandise was successful. I also think you missed the point which is that they actually shipped the game, and made the merchandise. They just didn't end up selling enough and went bankrupt, preventing them from shipping the merchandise. If they'd earmarked the funds or actually sold as expected, none of this would be a problem. i.e. merchandise wasn't the source of their problems.
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- hamburglar 11y ago
  I think part of the problem is that they vastly underestimated the logistics of getting these physical items produced, and I think the GP's point is that you're doing exactly the same thing. You don't just go to a local printer and say "make me a booklet" and write a check and you're done.
  - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
    Indulge me? I've done it plenty of times :-/
    - hamburglar 11y ago
      If you're talking about offset printing a proper cut and folded booklet that looks like a reward worth having, then you've got the design, the prepress, the iteration with the printer about what looks good, the domain knowledge of what you even want, etc. I don't think most software developers could do this and have a decent result in anywhere near the amount of time they think it should take. If you have done so, congratulations, but my gut feeling is that your standards may not be quite the same as someone who has some actual experience with that process. If you can't tell the difference between offset printing and laser, I have some bad news for you about how your booklets look. ;)
- s73v3r 11y ago
  I was talking about how you believe that fulfilling a book order is that simple.
  - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
    Can you be more specific? They actually said they had everything made and printed, can't be that hard... they simply didn't end up having enough money for shipping costs because they went bankrupt for other reasons. Again, they made an accounting mistake, instead of earmarking the funds for shipping, they expected once the game launched they'd sell easily (they were greenlit in days, featured at the E3 etc), they'd easily manage shipping. I mean let's be clear here, they had a bunch of artwork laying around already (we know this), artwork that ended up in a wallpaper, and they had rewards of $30 - $50 for the game + some digital stuff (e.g. an mp3 of the soundtrack) + getting this artwork mailed to them. Oh and the game was just $10. So in effect they have a PDF on their computer, and they're charging $20 print and send it to you. (this isn't even the booklet, just the wallpaper, the booklet+wallpaper costs $40 extra ontop of the game). Now you find me a scrappy indie game dev that doesn't want that, or can't handle it, or can't make that profitable. Don't act like that is rocket science. You telling me if you're running a small shop of 5 people and you're so scrappy you'll risk bankruptcy 6 months later, that printing and shipping a PDF for $20 to 1000 people isn't workable? That generating this $20k revenue (1/3rd of what they pulled in) from a wallpaper, can't be done for less than $10k everything included (printing, labor, shipping). I mean hell I can print 1.000 A3s for less than $1k without much effort, already found a quote for that, and it'd be printed within a day. Again, they said they had everything printed and ready, that's not the issue here. Then I reward myself $3k for an entire month of effort of shipping pieces of paper (big deal, could do it in a week), and I spend $3 to mail 1 piece of paper each. I still make $13k, enough to pay a developer in Belgium for 3 months. And considering I spent $3k on the labor, I might as well outsource it to some highschool intern who gets a ridiculously royal salary of $3k for barely a week's worth of work. And I'm being pretty generous with the margins here, even if you nitpick here and there, and add some other factors, it's still a good deal. In fact I doubt they regretted their decision, merchandise was half their campaign revenue. Now I KNOW there are companies that offer ridiculous stuff. 1) offer things they haven't made yet (like a mini comic to go along with the game, which requires a lot of time spent) and 2) things that make no economic sense (a $20 reward for a 3d printed game thingy, which costs $15 to make and $10 to ship, and time spent). And that this makes no economic sense and often fails. My point is that while merchandise isn't always a good idea, it definitely can be, and that it probably was for this company. As for a 'book order', it's just a booklet made out of a bit of paper, at a quantity of 1000 of them they cost about $1 each or so. Remember they're part of a $40 reward which has a booklet, wallpaper (combined <$2) and digital rewards like a soundtrack. Hardly unfeasible, this is on top of the $10 of the game's price.

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

by s73v3r 11y ago

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea. The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I think we both can guess they spent more than half of their time developing the game, and even though one can find examples where merchandise was successful. I also think you missed the point which is that they actually shipped the game, and made the merchandise. They just didn't end up selling enough and went bankrupt, preventing them from shipping the merchandise. If they'd earmarked the funds or actually sold as expected, none of this would be a problem. i.e. merchandise wasn't the source of their problems.

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hamburglar 11y ago
I think part of the problem is that they vastly underestimated the logistics of getting these physical items produced, and I think the GP's point is that you're doing exactly the same thing. You don't just go to a local printer and say "make me a booklet" and write a check and you're done.
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  Indulge me? I've done it plenty of times :-/
  - hamburglar 11y ago
    If you're talking about offset printing a proper cut and folded booklet that looks like a reward worth having, then you've got the design, the prepress, the iteration with the printer about what looks good, the domain knowledge of what you even want, etc. I don't think most software developers could do this and have a decent result in anywhere near the amount of time they think it should take. If you have done so, congratulations, but my gut feeling is that your standards may not be quite the same as someone who has some actual experience with that process. If you can't tell the difference between offset printing and laser, I have some bad news for you about how your booklets look. ;)
s73v3r 11y ago
I was talking about how you believe that fulfilling a book order is that simple.
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  Can you be more specific? They actually said they had everything made and printed, can't be that hard... they simply didn't end up having enough money for shipping costs because they went bankrupt for other reasons. Again, they made an accounting mistake, instead of earmarking the funds for shipping, they expected once the game launched they'd sell easily (they were greenlit in days, featured at the E3 etc), they'd easily manage shipping. I mean let's be clear here, they had a bunch of artwork laying around already (we know this), artwork that ended up in a wallpaper, and they had rewards of $30 - $50 for the game + some digital stuff (e.g. an mp3 of the soundtrack) + getting this artwork mailed to them. Oh and the game was just $10. So in effect they have a PDF on their computer, and they're charging $20 print and send it to you. (this isn't even the booklet, just the wallpaper, the booklet+wallpaper costs $40 extra ontop of the game). Now you find me a scrappy indie game dev that doesn't want that, or can't handle it, or can't make that profitable. Don't act like that is rocket science. You telling me if you're running a small shop of 5 people and you're so scrappy you'll risk bankruptcy 6 months later, that printing and shipping a PDF for $20 to 1000 people isn't workable? That generating this $20k revenue (1/3rd of what they pulled in) from a wallpaper, can't be done for less than $10k everything included (printing, labor, shipping). I mean hell I can print 1.000 A3s for less than $1k without much effort, already found a quote for that, and it'd be printed within a day. Again, they said they had everything printed and ready, that's not the issue here. Then I reward myself $3k for an entire month of effort of shipping pieces of paper (big deal, could do it in a week), and I spend $3 to mail 1 piece of paper each. I still make $13k, enough to pay a developer in Belgium for 3 months. And considering I spent $3k on the labor, I might as well outsource it to some highschool intern who gets a ridiculously royal salary of $3k for barely a week's worth of work. And I'm being pretty generous with the margins here, even if you nitpick here and there, and add some other factors, it's still a good deal. In fact I doubt they regretted their decision, merchandise was half their campaign revenue. Now I KNOW there are companies that offer ridiculous stuff. 1) offer things they haven't made yet (like a mini comic to go along with the game, which requires a lot of time spent) and 2) things that make no economic sense (a $20 reward for a 3d printed game thingy, which costs $15 to make and $10 to ship, and time spent). And that this makes no economic sense and often fails. My point is that while merchandise isn't always a good idea, it definitely can be, and that it probably was for this company. As for a 'book order', it's just a booklet made out of a bit of paper, at a quantity of 1000 of them they cost about $1 each or so. Remember they're part of a $40 reward which has a booklet, wallpaper (combined <$2) and digital rewards like a soundtrack. Hardly unfeasible, this is on top of the $10 of the game's price.