4 ms·

Clojure won.

by maehwasu 11y ago

Clojure won.

vosper 11y ago
You're getting downvoted, but I think there might be some truth to this.
- jeremiep 11y ago
  I'm fairly certain Arc influenced Clojure in some way. Especially the naming of functions such as fn, pr, prn and the likes.
  - dkersten 11y ago
    I'm not sure, I've used 'fn' in toy programming language concepts before I ever heard of arc or clojure. I mean, its not impossible and I certainly don't know about the others, but its also not impossible that they were independently named. However, I do think its very likely that arc influenced Clojure, even if just a little.
    - truncate 11y ago
      SML uses fn for lambda.
      - dkersten 11y ago
        Ah. Actually, now that you mention it, I probably saw it there before I ever thought of using it.
  - brudgers 11y ago
    I can't help but imagine a party, not entirely unlike the opening scene of Animal House except that everyone is older. Our protagonist enters and a hipster host quickly leads him away from the action and into a side room saying "Rich, Paul is working on a new dialect of lisp, too."
- davelnewton 11y ago
  I'm not really convinced Clojure is even one of the reasons, though. It seems like they have different goals and mindsets.
- melling 11y ago
  He should probably rephrase. Clojure has won as an acceptable Lisp in business. Lisp'ers should probably get behind it to help to grow it even more. Once it grows, other Lisps will have an easier time.
  - davelnewton 11y ago
    I think a lot of Lispers are; it got a great reception at Lisp50 from at least some of the oldbies in attendance.
- drcode 11y ago
  As likely one of the few people outside of pg to use arc in production, I agree Clojure won- It has about 80% of the features that arc pioneered, and many additional features that leave arc in the dust. (Most of the remaining "good ideas" in arc are syntactic sugar which are just too controversial to see mainstream adoption.)
  - dublinben 11y ago
    You're definitely not the only person using Arc in production. Hubski is written in Arc and still under active development.
    - drcode 11y ago
      In my defense, I wrote "one of the few people" :-)
  - jules 11y ago
    Could you list the features that Arc pioneered?
  - wcummings 11y ago
    What features did arc "pioneer"?
    - drcode 11y ago
      Shoot, it's been too long for me to sort out the various features now, but you can read about the cooler parts of arc here: http://old.ycombinator.com/arc/tut.txt http://old.ycombinator.com/arc/tut.txt which won't look very exciting to any Clojure programmer nowadays. Probably its most useful innovation, even if it sounds mundane now (and I'm not 100% sure it was first on this- feel free to correct me) is that it was the first Lisp to realize that sequences and key-value associations are both equally important and should both have first-class status in the core language (with proper literal and shortcut accessor support) ... so like clojure, arc is more of a MLISP (Map and LISt Processor) However, the posted link doesn't have examples of the crazy syntactic sugar stuff pg did that I think was added in a later revision.

Clojure won.

vosper 11y ago

You're getting downvoted, but I think there might be some truth to this.

jeremiep 11y ago
I'm fairly certain Arc influenced Clojure in some way. Especially the naming of functions such as fn, pr, prn and the likes.
- dkersten 11y ago
  I'm not sure, I've used 'fn' in toy programming language concepts before I ever heard of arc or clojure. I mean, its not impossible and I certainly don't know about the others, but its also not impossible that they were independently named. However, I do think its very likely that arc influenced Clojure, even if just a little.
  - truncate 11y ago
    SML uses fn for lambda.
    - dkersten 11y ago
      Ah. Actually, now that you mention it, I probably saw it there before I ever thought of using it.
- brudgers 11y ago
  I can't help but imagine a party, not entirely unlike the opening scene of Animal House except that everyone is older. Our protagonist enters and a hipster host quickly leads him away from the action and into a side room saying "Rich, Paul is working on a new dialect of lisp, too."
davelnewton 11y ago
I'm not really convinced Clojure is even one of the reasons, though. It seems like they have different goals and mindsets.
melling 11y ago
He should probably rephrase. Clojure has won as an acceptable Lisp in business. Lisp'ers should probably get behind it to help to grow it even more. Once it grows, other Lisps will have an easier time.
- davelnewton 11y ago
  I think a lot of Lispers are; it got a great reception at Lisp50 from at least some of the oldbies in attendance.
drcode 11y ago
As likely one of the few people outside of pg to use arc in production, I agree Clojure won- It has about 80% of the features that arc pioneered, and many additional features that leave arc in the dust. (Most of the remaining "good ideas" in arc are syntactic sugar which are just too controversial to see mainstream adoption.)
- dublinben 11y ago
  You're definitely not the only person using Arc in production. Hubski is written in Arc and still under active development.
  - drcode 11y ago
    In my defense, I wrote "one of the few people" :-)
- jules 11y ago
  Could you list the features that Arc pioneered?
- wcummings 11y ago
  What features did arc "pioneer"?
  - drcode 11y ago
    Shoot, it's been too long for me to sort out the various features now, but you can read about the cooler parts of arc here: http://old.ycombinator.com/arc/tut.txt http://old.ycombinator.com/arc/tut.txt which won't look very exciting to any Clojure programmer nowadays. Probably its most useful innovation, even if it sounds mundane now (and I'm not 100% sure it was first on this- feel free to correct me) is that it was the first Lisp to realize that sequences and key-value associations are both equally important and should both have first-class status in the core language (with proper literal and shortcut accessor support) ... so like clojure, arc is more of a MLISP (Map and LISt Processor) However, the posted link doesn't have examples of the crazy syntactic sugar stuff pg did that I think was added in a later revision.