11 ms·

I really wish software kickstarters would stop doing physical rewards. The logistics of manufacturing and shipping are non-trivial and are so outside of any sof

by coldpie 11y ago

I really wish software kickstarters would stop doing physical rewards. The logistics of manufacturing and shipping are non-trivial and are so outside of any software studio's wheelhouse.

IkmoIkmo 11y ago
I'm not sure if it's true. It depends. Some stuff, for sure, like 3d printing tiny models of ingame characters, is something you can't just go out and do at scale without experience. But there's a lot of 'artbook' and 'wallpaper' and 'soundtrack' stuff. i.e. 100% of things that they already have. This project on its kickstarter already displayed lots of art and wallpaper material, and they launched the game obviously with a soundtrack. In short, shipping that is going to a local printer and asking to make a booklet or a wallpaper, in color. They give you a price and you inflate it by 10x. Wallpaper and booklet costs $3 to print, add a soundtrack and $3 in shipping (average, some will be 50c, some $5), and turn it into a +$25 reward. Get 1000 backers like that and you're netting close to $20k for relatively little effort. Even some ridiculous overhead and you still net $10k for stuff you can pay a highschooler a few hundred bucks to create. That $20k can pay a 3man passionate noodle eating team that's working on this parttime for months, and that's with a thousand backers, this team had a few thousand, actually I took a look and it seems that rewards are about half their campaign. It's really scrappy but it happens and it sometimes really works out. Definitely not something that works for every project, in fact I see it fail more often than not. But it's not a priori a bad idea, I just don't think everyone thinks it through. Some devs create games and then have a mini comic booklet as a reward that increases the price by $5, or hell just include it for free because hey, kickstarter. That requires writing, printing and shipping, the costs don't make sense at all.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.
  - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
    I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea. The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I think we both can guess they spent more than half of their time developing the game, and even though one can find examples where merchandise was successful. I also think you missed the point which is that they actually shipped the game, and made the merchandise. They just didn't end up selling enough and went bankrupt, preventing them from shipping the merchandise. If they'd earmarked the funds or actually sold as expected, none of this would be a problem. i.e. merchandise wasn't the source of their problems.
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    - hamburglar 11y ago
      I think part of the problem is that they vastly underestimated the logistics of getting these physical items produced, and I think the GP's point is that you're doing exactly the same thing. You don't just go to a local printer and say "make me a booklet" and write a check and you're done.
      - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
        Indulge me? I've done it plenty of times :-/
        hamburglar 11y ago
        If you're talking about offset printing a proper cut and folded booklet that looks like a reward worth having, then you've got the design, the prepress, the iteration with the printer about what looks good, the domain knowledge of what you even want, etc. I don't think most software developers could do this and have a decent result in anywhere near the amount of time they think it should take. If you have done so, congratulations, but my gut feeling is that your standards may not be quite the same as someone who has some actual experience with that process. If you can't tell the difference between offset printing and laser, I have some bad news for you about how your booklets look. ;)
- RYL-Meseeks 11y ago
  So at this point, what stops them from giving digital copies of the soundtrack/artbook out? Bandwidth costs a hell of a lot less than postage/packaging, and it'd be a nice gesture to backers.

by coldpie 11y ago

I really wish software kickstarters would stop doing physical rewards. The logistics of manufacturing and shipping are non-trivial and are so outside of any software studio's wheelhouse.

IkmoIkmo 11y ago

I'm not sure if it's true. It depends. Some stuff, for sure, like 3d printing tiny models of ingame characters, is something you can't just go out and do at scale without experience. But there's a lot of 'artbook' and 'wallpaper' and 'soundtrack' stuff. i.e. 100% of things that they already have. This project on its kickstarter already displayed lots of art and wallpaper material, and they launched the game obviously with a soundtrack. In short, shipping that is going to a local printer and asking to make a booklet or a wallpaper, in color. They give you a price and you inflate it by 10x. Wallpaper and booklet costs $3 to print, add a soundtrack and $3 in shipping (average, some will be 50c, some $5), and turn it into a +$25 reward. Get 1000 backers like that and you're netting close to $20k for relatively little effort. Even some ridiculous overhead and you still net $10k for stuff you can pay a highschooler a few hundred bucks to create. That $20k can pay a 3man passionate noodle eating team that's working on this parttime for months, and that's with a thousand backers, this team had a few thousand, actually I took a look and it seems that rewards are about half their campaign. It's really scrappy but it happens and it sometimes really works out. Definitely not something that works for every project, in fact I see it fail more often than not. But it's not a priori a bad idea, I just don't think everyone thinks it through. Some devs create games and then have a mini comic booklet as a reward that increases the price by $5, or hell just include it for free because hey, kickstarter. That requires writing, printing and shipping, the costs don't make sense at all.

s73v3r 11y ago
I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea. The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I think we both can guess they spent more than half of their time developing the game, and even though one can find examples where merchandise was successful. I also think you missed the point which is that they actually shipped the game, and made the merchandise. They just didn't end up selling enough and went bankrupt, preventing them from shipping the merchandise. If they'd earmarked the funds or actually sold as expected, none of this would be a problem. i.e. merchandise wasn't the source of their problems.
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  - hamburglar 11y ago
    I think part of the problem is that they vastly underestimated the logistics of getting these physical items produced, and I think the GP's point is that you're doing exactly the same thing. You don't just go to a local printer and say "make me a booklet" and write a check and you're done.
    - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
      Indulge me? I've done it plenty of times :-/
      - hamburglar 11y ago
        If you're talking about offset printing a proper cut and folded booklet that looks like a reward worth having, then you've got the design, the prepress, the iteration with the printer about what looks good, the domain knowledge of what you even want, etc. I don't think most software developers could do this and have a decent result in anywhere near the amount of time they think it should take. If you have done so, congratulations, but my gut feeling is that your standards may not be quite the same as someone who has some actual experience with that process. If you can't tell the difference between offset printing and laser, I have some bad news for you about how your booklets look. ;)
RYL-Meseeks 11y ago
So at this point, what stops them from giving digital copies of the soundtrack/artbook out? Bandwidth costs a hell of a lot less than postage/packaging, and it'd be a nice gesture to backers.