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Natural law doesn't exist. It's essentially a religious belief Jefferson had.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Natural law does exist. The difference between natural law and laws of a civilisation? I'll let Feynman hint at it... "Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled". To give the context, this was said in relation to the Challenger Shuttle explosion.
- rayiner 11y ago
  Evidence showing the existence of natural law?
  - Retra 11y ago
    Natural (physical) laws are presumed to exist. Natural (social, moral) laws don't. (At least not in a readily usable form.)
  - deelowe 11y ago
    Natural laws are laws that any rational nation would arrive at... well, naturally. Killing is bad, so is stealing, etc... These are natural laws. Anyone capable of rational thought can see how these things would ultimately be bad for any society. The others are laws that a nation creates as a result of specifics surrounding itself. Patents are one such example. These exist solely to spur the sharing of ideas by encouraging inventors to document and share them in detail so that they can later be used by society once the patent expires. A temporary monopoly is granted on an idea to encourage this sharing. This way, ideas aren't lost to eternity simply b/c the inventor didn't have the means to fabricate them. This concept is purely a construct of western nations and culture. It's unlikely an isolated society would arrive at a similar construct naturally.
    - Asbostos 11y ago
      Even forbidding killing isn't a natural law. In many societies it has been legal to kill slaves, animals, foreigners, gays, people who break the artificial laws, etc. So killing is often seen as good for society. No laws of property ownership, right to life, right to freedom, etc are natural. They're just things that some societies, sometimes have decided are worth restricting.
      - ken47 11y ago
        To quote the parent to your comment: "Natural laws are laws that any rational nation would arrive at..."
        m_eiman 11y ago
        "Rational" isn't objective; it's apparently rational for parts of the US to kill its citizens for committing certain crimes, while most developed nations do not.
        Asbostos 11y ago
        Every country with an armed army or police force would be classed as irrational by that standard.
- bithive123 11y ago
  I think what GP meant is that it's like the "Scroll direction: natural" option that appeared in OS X system preferences after Apple changed the default scroll behavior to match what happens on mobile devices. I am guessing that a lot of us "see what they did there".

Natural law does exist. The difference between natural law and laws of a civilisation? I'll let Feynman hint at it... "Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled". To give the context, this was said in relation to the Challenger Shuttle explosion.

rayiner 11y ago
Evidence showing the existence of natural law?
- Retra 11y ago
  Natural (physical) laws are presumed to exist. Natural (social, moral) laws don't. (At least not in a readily usable form.)
- deelowe 11y ago
  Natural laws are laws that any rational nation would arrive at... well, naturally. Killing is bad, so is stealing, etc... These are natural laws. Anyone capable of rational thought can see how these things would ultimately be bad for any society. The others are laws that a nation creates as a result of specifics surrounding itself. Patents are one such example. These exist solely to spur the sharing of ideas by encouraging inventors to document and share them in detail so that they can later be used by society once the patent expires. A temporary monopoly is granted on an idea to encourage this sharing. This way, ideas aren't lost to eternity simply b/c the inventor didn't have the means to fabricate them. This concept is purely a construct of western nations and culture. It's unlikely an isolated society would arrive at a similar construct naturally.
  - Asbostos 11y ago
    Even forbidding killing isn't a natural law. In many societies it has been legal to kill slaves, animals, foreigners, gays, people who break the artificial laws, etc. So killing is often seen as good for society. No laws of property ownership, right to life, right to freedom, etc are natural. They're just things that some societies, sometimes have decided are worth restricting.
    - ken47 11y ago
      To quote the parent to your comment: "Natural laws are laws that any rational nation would arrive at..."
      - m_eiman 11y ago
        "Rational" isn't objective; it's apparently rational for parts of the US to kill its citizens for committing certain crimes, while most developed nations do not.
      - Asbostos 11y ago
        Every country with an armed army or police force would be classed as irrational by that standard.
bithive123 11y ago
I think what GP meant is that it's like the "Scroll direction: natural" option that appeared in OS X system preferences after Apple changed the default scroll behavior to match what happens on mobile devices. I am guessing that a lot of us "see what they did there".