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While I think it's unlikely you're going to convert me, I do appreciate your points. I'm not so much against private-sector unions, I just don't think people s

by jeremyt 11y ago

While I think it's unlikely you're going to convert me, I do appreciate your points. I'm not so much against private-sector unions, I just don't think people should be forced to join the union when they don't want to. And I don't believe that unions are net plus for technological or economic progress. Your paragraph about government regulation is hard to disagree with because it is so broad. Of course, I think everyone would agree that sometimes light touch regulation is necessary, but it's the "sometimes" and the "light touch" that becomes a problem. I'm honestly not sure what kind of point you're making here. I'm certainly not arguing for no regulation. And as for getting far more value from taxes than what we pay, I guess that depends on what we pay. I guess I would disagree generally, but anyone making the claim that I, personally, will get more value from my taxes than what I pay is kind of laughable. Certainly entitled to your opinions, but frankly what you've written just sounds like "Nothing's perfect, whatyagonnadoo?" I feel like I can do better.

clavalle 11y ago
> I guess that depends on what we pay. Everyone gets more value than what they pay, from Bill Gates (Insert the US's largest tax payer here) on down. I can safely say that I get more than my money's worth and so do you. That doesn't make it any more fun to pay taxes but it helps ease my pain a bit...YMMV. And, while nothing is perfect, there are some Really Bad Problems that we need to address. Overreaching government regulation doesn't even hold a candle to having so many people living in poverty -- even people who work full time. Nor does the tax burden register on the scales compared to the shoddy state of our health care system. That's what I meant to say -- that, while your concerns are valid and I am not advocating ignoring them or letting things tilt out of control, we've got much bigger fish to fry.
beatpanda 11y ago
>I don't believe that unions are net plus for ... economic progress Please cite an example where workers are better off having lost the right to unionize, or one where they are worse off for having gained it.
- refurb 11y ago
  Just compare a heavily unionized US car manufacturer with one that isn't (GM vs. Honda plants in the US). GM is so utterly saddled with pension and healthcare obligations that it's practically doomed.

by jeremyt 11y ago

clavalle 11y ago

> I guess that depends on what we pay. Everyone gets more value than what they pay, from Bill Gates (Insert the US's largest tax payer here) on down. I can safely say that I get more than my money's worth and so do you. That doesn't make it any more fun to pay taxes but it helps ease my pain a bit...YMMV. And, while nothing is perfect, there are some Really Bad Problems that we need to address. Overreaching government regulation doesn't even hold a candle to having so many people living in poverty -- even people who work full time. Nor does the tax burden register on the scales compared to the shoddy state of our health care system. That's what I meant to say -- that, while your concerns are valid and I am not advocating ignoring them or letting things tilt out of control, we've got much bigger fish to fry.

beatpanda 11y ago

>I don't believe that unions are net plus for ... economic progress Please cite an example where workers are better off having lost the right to unionize, or one where they are worse off for having gained it.

refurb 11y ago
Just compare a heavily unionized US car manufacturer with one that isn't (GM vs. Honda plants in the US). GM is so utterly saddled with pension and healthcare obligations that it's practically doomed.