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>Because a few moments of thought to compose a reply will produce a better result than people who have been working on codes of conduct for years and have seen

>Because a few moments of thought to compose a reply will produce a better result than people who have been working on codes of conduct for years and have seen the stunts people try to pull? Simple amount of effort doesn't guarantee a good result. I'm sure we can all name software projects that added feature after feature as years slipped by and ended up as a bloated, counterproductive mess, much like the CoC we're debating. >And in the process, you've also managed to dismiss any and all discussions of how to positively improve a project to better address social issues, or how to fix existing problems. Congratulations, your code of conduct itself makes people unwelcome. Actually, since you mentioned it: why is it the obligation of every random hobbyist open source project to "better address social issues"?

JoshTriplett 11y ago
> Actually, since you mentioned it: why is it the obligation of every random hobbyist open source project to "better address social issues"? For the most part I'm talking about issues those projects already have, such as being hostile to new users or contributors, and especially to various specific groups. As for "why": much like "Free Software" versus "Open Source", there are ideological reasons and practical reasons. A sample of practical ("Open Source"-style) reasons: because you want more users and contributors, because you want contributors who don't all think like you do, because less energy spent dealing with awful people is more energy spent hacking, and because communities that people have more fun in are communities that grow much faster. Additional ideological ("Free Software"-style) reasons, which apply whether the rest do or not: because being decent to everyone is not too much to ask, and shouldn't have to be asked for in the first place.
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  "Additional ideological ("Free Software"-style) reasons, which apply whether the rest do or not: because being decent to everyone is not too much to ask, and shouldn't have to be asked for in the first place." Those are admirable goals, but a) they have nothing to do with free software and b) it is not established that these codes of conduct, especially when they enshrine fringe political viewpoints and explicitly racist and discriminatory behavior as this one does, will achieve those goals.

JoshTriplett 11y ago

> Actually, since you mentioned it: why is it the obligation of every random hobbyist open source project to "better address social issues"? For the most part I'm talking about issues those projects already have, such as being hostile to new users or contributors, and especially to various specific groups. As for "why": much like "Free Software" versus "Open Source", there are ideological reasons and practical reasons. A sample of practical ("Open Source"-style) reasons: because you want more users and contributors, because you want contributors who don't all think like you do, because less energy spent dealing with awful people is more energy spent hacking, and because communities that people have more fun in are communities that grow much faster. Additional ideological ("Free Software"-style) reasons, which apply whether the rest do or not: because being decent to everyone is not too much to ask, and shouldn't have to be asked for in the first place.

13thLetter 11y ago
"Additional ideological ("Free Software"-style) reasons, which apply whether the rest do or not: because being decent to everyone is not too much to ask, and shouldn't have to be asked for in the first place." Those are admirable goals, but a) they have nothing to do with free software and b) it is not established that these codes of conduct, especially when they enshrine fringe political viewpoints and explicitly racist and discriminatory behavior as this one does, will achieve those goals.