7 ms·

What's so bad about the estate tax? Afraid your sheltered little brats can't hack it with only $5M?

by pnut 11y ago

jeremyt 11y ago
I'm actually opposed to repealing the estate tax (And if it were up to me, the estate tax would be 100%), but it goes to my point that he just wants to raise taxes on everything. I actually forgot to mention that he wants a carbon tax, too. /edit typed the exact opposite of what I meant
- quadrangle 11y ago
  Climate issues are so real and serious that a carbon tax which seriously hurt the economy short-term would directly result in massively greater prosperity long-term. You know the standard thing: tax stuff if you want less of it. A carbon tax is much more about last-ditch attempts to avoid total climate mayhem than about raising taxes. Incidentally, universal healthcare is the sort of thing that lowers overall costs for society by treating people before they spread disease and end up in emergency rooms… Bernie Sanders is not interested in taxes, they are a means to various ends. He wants to use whatever tools will achieve the goals of having a healthy, just society. I think it's just dogmatic to be fundamentally worried about taxes one way or the other. The question is what we use the money for. Raising taxes could be terrible or could be great, all depends on each case, what and who are taxed, why, and what do we do with the revenue.
  - refurb 11y ago
    Incidentally, universal healthcare is the sort of thing that lowers overall costs for society by treating people before they spread disease and end up in emergency rooms… Not really. Check out the Oregon Medicaid study. Higher costs with universal coverage, but no better outcome.
    - quadrangle 11y ago
      Medicaid in Oregon ≠ universal healthcare. Real universal healthcare is what you see in other countries: Canada, Japan, U.K., Denmark, Costa Rica, Cuba… And you'll find enough variation among those to acknowledge that the devil is in the details still. Interesting stuff though… despite being poorer and spending far less on healthcare, Cuba and Costa Rica have the same life expectancy as the U.S.
      - refurb 11y ago
        Read the Oregon study. It's a great piece of work. They took two sets of randomly aelected folks. Half got Medicaid coverage, the other remained uninsured. No difference in health outcomes only higher costs. It's a pretty powerful statement about the powers of preventative healthcare. And life expectancy is a terrible measure of the quality of healthcare. It's been rehashed plenty of times on HN. Too many confounding factors.
refurb 11y ago
I'm opposed to the estate tax because at some point in time the money is mine. If I've paid all my taxes, why should I have to give up more just because I've died? And unless an estate tax is 100%, you're not going to change how wealth is passed down. Bill Gates could pay a 50% estate tax when he dies and still leave every offspring a "sheltered brat" as you put it.
- mikeash 11y ago
  I'd ask the opposite question: why should any of your property go to your children when you die?
  - refurb 11y ago
    I think the simple answer is "because it's mine." I guess I am just completely opposed to the idea that what I own, I own just because the government lets me. I'm fine with paying taxes on my income, but at some point it becomes my income and I should be able to do with it as I please.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      But after you die, there's no "you" to own it anymore.
      - refurb 11y ago
        See my reply above. It's mine if i have a say as to what happens to it when i die. The other point is that many left leaning countries have no death tax (Canada). They seem to get along fine.
- Frondo 11y ago
  You don't actually get to own anything after you're dead, you know. There isn't a "you" there to do the owning.
  - refurb 11y ago

What's so bad about the estate tax? Afraid your sheltered little brats can't hack it with only $5M?

by pnut 11y ago

What's so bad about the estate tax? Afraid your sheltered little brats can't hack it with only $5M?

I'm actually opposed to repealing the estate tax (And if it were up to me, the estate tax would be 100%), but it goes to my point that he just wants to raise taxes on everything. I actually forgot to mention that he wants a carbon tax, too. /edit typed the exact opposite of what I meant

quadrangle 11y ago
Climate issues are so real and serious that a carbon tax which seriously hurt the economy short-term would directly result in massively greater prosperity long-term. You know the standard thing: tax stuff if you want less of it. A carbon tax is much more about last-ditch attempts to avoid total climate mayhem than about raising taxes. Incidentally, universal healthcare is the sort of thing that lowers overall costs for society by treating people before they spread disease and end up in emergency rooms… Bernie Sanders is not interested in taxes, they are a means to various ends. He wants to use whatever tools will achieve the goals of having a healthy, just society. I think it's just dogmatic to be fundamentally worried about taxes one way or the other. The question is what we use the money for. Raising taxes could be terrible or could be great, all depends on each case, what and who are taxed, why, and what do we do with the revenue.
- refurb 11y ago
  Incidentally, universal healthcare is the sort of thing that lowers overall costs for society by treating people before they spread disease and end up in emergency rooms… Not really. Check out the Oregon Medicaid study. Higher costs with universal coverage, but no better outcome.
  - quadrangle 11y ago
    Medicaid in Oregon ≠ universal healthcare. Real universal healthcare is what you see in other countries: Canada, Japan, U.K., Denmark, Costa Rica, Cuba… And you'll find enough variation among those to acknowledge that the devil is in the details still. Interesting stuff though… despite being poorer and spending far less on healthcare, Cuba and Costa Rica have the same life expectancy as the U.S.
    - refurb 11y ago
      Read the Oregon study. It's a great piece of work. They took two sets of randomly aelected folks. Half got Medicaid coverage, the other remained uninsured. No difference in health outcomes only higher costs. It's a pretty powerful statement about the powers of preventative healthcare. And life expectancy is a terrible measure of the quality of healthcare. It's been rehashed plenty of times on HN. Too many confounding factors.

refurb 11y ago

I'm opposed to the estate tax because at some point in time the money is mine. If I've paid all my taxes, why should I have to give up more just because I've died? And unless an estate tax is 100%, you're not going to change how wealth is passed down. Bill Gates could pay a 50% estate tax when he dies and still leave every offspring a "sheltered brat" as you put it.

mikeash 11y ago
I'd ask the opposite question: why should any of your property go to your children when you die?
- refurb 11y ago
  I think the simple answer is "because it's mine." I guess I am just completely opposed to the idea that what I own, I own just because the government lets me. I'm fine with paying taxes on my income, but at some point it becomes my income and I should be able to do with it as I please.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    But after you die, there's no "you" to own it anymore.
    - refurb 11y ago
      See my reply above. It's mine if i have a say as to what happens to it when i die. The other point is that many left leaning countries have no death tax (Canada). They seem to get along fine.
Frondo 11y ago
You don't actually get to own anything after you're dead, you know. There isn't a "you" there to do the owning.
- refurb 11y ago