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I'm not sure this tragic example is actually a good example. If I replace the battery in my alarm clock, I check whether the alarm is still set, because I know

I'm not sure this tragic example is actually a good example. If I replace the battery in my alarm clock, I check whether the alarm is still set, because I know I can't rely on it. If you set coordinates for something as vastly more important as an airstrike, shouldn't it be par for the course that you doublecheck the coordinates if you replace the battery between setting the coordinates and pressing 'fire'?

tadfisher 11y ago
Think deeper: what is the use case for a GPS unit setting airstrike coordinates to its own location?
- Confusion 11y ago
  A guy here recently got quite an important medal for doing exactly that.
- breischl 11y ago
  From Brian Thacker's Medal of Honor citation: "Then, in an act of supreme courage, he called for friendly artillery fire on his own position to allow his comrades more time to withdraw safely from the area and, at the same time, inflict even greater casualties on the enemy forces." John R Fox's citation: "As the Germans continued to press the attack towards the area that Lieutenant Fox occupied, he adjusted the artillery fire closer to his position. Finally he was warned that the next adjustment would bring the deadly artillery right on top of his position. After acknowledging the danger, Lieutenant Fox insisted that the last adjustment be fired as this was the only way to defeat the attacking soldiers. Later, when a counterattack retook the position from the Germans, Lieutenant Fox's body was found with the bodies of approximately 100 German soldiers." Pretty sure you can find some more if you look. [1] - http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/3431/thacker-brian-miles.php http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/3431/thacker-brian-mil... [2] - http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/2744/fox-john-r.php http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/2744/fox-john-r.php
  - hyperpape 11y ago
    Ok, what is the use case for it doing that by default?
    - breischl 11y ago
      How does one enter coordinates on that device? I'd guess that as an offset from your location ("200m north of my position") might be the easiest way. If that's the case, then starting with a zero offset would be the logical choice. You'd hope they would add some sort of safety to prevent this sort of thing, though.
      - hyperpape 11y ago
        I would say that no default is the right choice.
        chipsy 11y ago
        It could actually be very simple. At power on the coordinates are zeroed, but "fire" is not allowed until coordinates are adjusted again. This prevents the original situation, but allows a tactical decision like "fire on own position" to be executed with at least as much speed as any other targeting decision. Firing at power on is an implicitly optimized UX for firing at the default position, and there is no reason for any target to be favored in this case.
      - gohrt 11y ago
        "logical" choices that are divorced from situational reality, are bad choices.
  - breischl 11y ago
    Sheesh, guy asks for a use case, I give him two real-world examples, and get downvoted for it. Nobody likes examples? (I know, I know, don't complain about the downvoting.)

tadfisher 11y ago

Think deeper: what is the use case for a GPS unit setting airstrike coordinates to its own location?

Confusion 11y ago
A guy here recently got quite an important medal for doing exactly that.
breischl 11y ago
From Brian Thacker's Medal of Honor citation: "Then, in an act of supreme courage, he called for friendly artillery fire on his own position to allow his comrades more time to withdraw safely from the area and, at the same time, inflict even greater casualties on the enemy forces." John R Fox's citation: "As the Germans continued to press the attack towards the area that Lieutenant Fox occupied, he adjusted the artillery fire closer to his position. Finally he was warned that the next adjustment would bring the deadly artillery right on top of his position. After acknowledging the danger, Lieutenant Fox insisted that the last adjustment be fired as this was the only way to defeat the attacking soldiers. Later, when a counterattack retook the position from the Germans, Lieutenant Fox's body was found with the bodies of approximately 100 German soldiers." Pretty sure you can find some more if you look. [1] - http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/3431/thacker-brian-miles.php http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/3431/thacker-brian-mil... [2] - http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/2744/fox-john-r.php http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/2744/fox-john-r.php
- hyperpape 11y ago
  Ok, what is the use case for it doing that by default?
  - breischl 11y ago
    How does one enter coordinates on that device? I'd guess that as an offset from your location ("200m north of my position") might be the easiest way. If that's the case, then starting with a zero offset would be the logical choice. You'd hope they would add some sort of safety to prevent this sort of thing, though.
    - hyperpape 11y ago
      I would say that no default is the right choice.
      - chipsy 11y ago
        It could actually be very simple. At power on the coordinates are zeroed, but "fire" is not allowed until coordinates are adjusted again. This prevents the original situation, but allows a tactical decision like "fire on own position" to be executed with at least as much speed as any other targeting decision. Firing at power on is an implicitly optimized UX for firing at the default position, and there is no reason for any target to be favored in this case.
    - gohrt 11y ago
      "logical" choices that are divorced from situational reality, are bad choices.
- breischl 11y ago
  Sheesh, guy asks for a use case, I give him two real-world examples, and get downvoted for it. Nobody likes examples? (I know, I know, don't complain about the downvoting.)