3 ms·

And my point is something like if you "need" something horseshoe shaped for crafty project or whatever, now a days you download a .scad from thingiverse, run it

by zzalpha 11y ago

And my point is something like if you "need" something horseshoe shaped for crafty project or whatever, now a days you download a .scad from thingiverse, run it thru openscad, run the .stl thru curaengine to get a .gcode, then feed the .gcode to octopi on your printer and pick up your shoe in a couple hours at a cost of about fifty cents of filament. You can't possibly be equating the manufacture of a simple physical metal object, something easily automated, and arguably of little valuable in a modern setting, with the creation of high quality, researched journalism, intended to inform the public. Can you? I mean, if you think that metaphor is at all appropriate, you've completely missed the point. Of both my own post, and of journalism in general.

saint_fiasco 11y ago
Don't just assert that. I sincerely believe that most people overestimate (or pretend to overestimate) the value of journalism, and I'm curious about why you think it isn't so.
- zzalpha 11y ago
  Alas, not to bring ageism into the discussion, but I'm gonna bet that probably just means you were born in, what, the late 90s or later? Journalism serves a vital function. It's called the "fourth estate" for a reason, and should serve to enlighten the public on the goings on of the government and the world. Journalism is one of the forces counteracting government secrecy and surveillance. Hell, journalism is what brought the Snowden revelations to light to the general public. To do that well, you need professional writers, researchers, and fact checkers. No, a casual blogger is not a journalist. Twitter is not journalism. Tumblr is not journalism. At best those are news. At worst, gossip. Unfortunately, we now have an entire generation who doesn't understand what real journalism actually looks like. It's a damn shame... remember, journalism brought down Nixon and helped end the Vietnam war, among many other things. Real journalism can be immensely powerful as a medium. It is not horseshoe manufacturing.
  - saint_fiasco 11y ago
    Could twitter and random blogs have stopped Vietnam and Nixon too, if they had existed back then? And if there is something unique to journalists that make them more proficient at stopping presidents and wars, why couldn't they stop the Iraq war? Because the powers that be coopted that power. I read the "journalists" in the early 21st century and it was depressing. Then again, the independent bloggers and twitters have also been rendered ineffective and powerless. Nothing much came from Occupy and the Arab Spring, fur example. We need something different.
    - zzalpha 11y ago
      > Could twitter and random blogs have stopped Vietnam and Nixon too, if they had existed back then? Go read about Watergate and get back to me (though, ironically, to do that you would need to read the works of investigative journalists...). Today, the equivalent to Deep Throat might be Snowden, and that, too, required journalists like those from The Guardian to get the story out. That kind of journalism requires resources to research, travel, for legal costs associated with protecting sources, etc. Regarding Vietnam, the Pentagon Papers would never have been published if the Times hadn't spent their own money going to court to defend their right to publish them. So no, I don't believe twitter or random blogs have the power of the fourth estate. > And if there is something unique to journalists that make them more proficient at stopping presidents and wars, why couldn't they stop the Iraq war? That's a deeply complicated topic. First, it's worth noting journalists never stopped Vietnam from starting. But as the war was waged, journalism played a role in turning public opinion against the war after it had started, thus hastening its end. So, with that said, journalists actually played a very similar role vis a vis the Iraq war. Now, I do believe they were less effective than in the past, but I actually believe that's exactly on point, here: that period is the same time when journalism began to struggle in the face of the ascendance of the Internet. Which brings me right back to my very original point: Quality journalism is dying because no one will pay for content. And no one will pay for content because of the perceived low quality of journalism. Repeat ad nauseum. Your mistake is in believing quality journalism never existed, but that's only because of your limited perspective, having only seen the medium as it began its slow decline.

by zzalpha 11y ago

saint_fiasco 11y ago

Don't just assert that. I sincerely believe that most people overestimate (or pretend to overestimate) the value of journalism, and I'm curious about why you think it isn't so.

zzalpha 11y ago
Alas, not to bring ageism into the discussion, but I'm gonna bet that probably just means you were born in, what, the late 90s or later? Journalism serves a vital function. It's called the "fourth estate" for a reason, and should serve to enlighten the public on the goings on of the government and the world. Journalism is one of the forces counteracting government secrecy and surveillance. Hell, journalism is what brought the Snowden revelations to light to the general public. To do that well, you need professional writers, researchers, and fact checkers. No, a casual blogger is not a journalist. Twitter is not journalism. Tumblr is not journalism. At best those are news. At worst, gossip. Unfortunately, we now have an entire generation who doesn't understand what real journalism actually looks like. It's a damn shame... remember, journalism brought down Nixon and helped end the Vietnam war, among many other things. Real journalism can be immensely powerful as a medium. It is not horseshoe manufacturing.
- saint_fiasco 11y ago
  Could twitter and random blogs have stopped Vietnam and Nixon too, if they had existed back then? And if there is something unique to journalists that make them more proficient at stopping presidents and wars, why couldn't they stop the Iraq war? Because the powers that be coopted that power. I read the "journalists" in the early 21st century and it was depressing. Then again, the independent bloggers and twitters have also been rendered ineffective and powerless. Nothing much came from Occupy and the Arab Spring, fur example. We need something different.
  - zzalpha 11y ago
    > Could twitter and random blogs have stopped Vietnam and Nixon too, if they had existed back then? Go read about Watergate and get back to me (though, ironically, to do that you would need to read the works of investigative journalists...). Today, the equivalent to Deep Throat might be Snowden, and that, too, required journalists like those from The Guardian to get the story out. That kind of journalism requires resources to research, travel, for legal costs associated with protecting sources, etc. Regarding Vietnam, the Pentagon Papers would never have been published if the Times hadn't spent their own money going to court to defend their right to publish them. So no, I don't believe twitter or random blogs have the power of the fourth estate. > And if there is something unique to journalists that make them more proficient at stopping presidents and wars, why couldn't they stop the Iraq war? That's a deeply complicated topic. First, it's worth noting journalists never stopped Vietnam from starting. But as the war was waged, journalism played a role in turning public opinion against the war after it had started, thus hastening its end. So, with that said, journalists actually played a very similar role vis a vis the Iraq war. Now, I do believe they were less effective than in the past, but I actually believe that's exactly on point, here: that period is the same time when journalism began to struggle in the face of the ascendance of the Internet. Which brings me right back to my very original point: Quality journalism is dying because no one will pay for content. And no one will pay for content because of the perceived low quality of journalism. Repeat ad nauseum. Your mistake is in believing quality journalism never existed, but that's only because of your limited perspective, having only seen the medium as it began its slow decline.