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Sure, but at $250, I can afford a lot of water before it becomes cost-effective. They look like they're aiming at making a premium shower experience.I'm skeptic

by jonlucc 11y ago

Sure, but at $250, I can afford a lot of water before it becomes cost-effective. They look like they're aiming at making a premium shower experience.I'm skeptical that it would take the soap off my body, though.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Their copy on Kickstarter says it pays for itself in 2 years. Think of it like Tesla for shower heads: Yeah, its expensive. Yeah, they're selling upmarket first. But it has a the potential to save a lot of water across the world if they ramp quickly and can drive the price down. (EDIT: Luckily, you don't need gigafactories for showerheads. It appears that their design can use traditional manufacturing methods, so it won't be terribly capital intensive.) Places where water is a cost center (Hotels, AirBnB hosts, gyms, etc) would probably be the primary demand drivers to start.
- Plough_Jogger 11y ago
  The analogy to Tesla is a poor one; this product is easily reproducible, and the homeware space is rife with imitation products that are notoriously difficult to protect with IP. I feel this product is more suitable for an infomercial than VC investment.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Disagree. Tesla gave its patents away (short answer. long answer is they'll license them to you for no cost if you play nicely). You can still patent things in the US, as well as enforce your trademarks.
    - nerfhammer 11y ago
      Tesla's products are not easily reproducible regardless
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Technically, the hardware is easily reproducible (battery pack and electric motors). Its the software and firmware where the magic sauce lies, as well as the supercharger network and their unbeatable service. I concede that anyone could copy a shower head and that you're relying on the rule of law to protect your invention. I don't see the problem with that, as that's how most manufacturing operates in the 21st century.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  > Their copy on Kickstarter says it pays for itself in 2 years. That is highly dependent on what they calculate for prices and what shower heads they compare to. Their main website shows savings examples of anywhere from $89.05/year (Miami) to $399.68 (San Francisco) for two nine-minute showers per day. This is presumably comparing against a 2.5 GPM head, since their head uses 0.75 GPM and they claim a 70% reduction in water usage. Comparing to one of the many 1.5 GPM or 1.75 GPM heads will obviously lead to significantly less savings. > Think of it like Tesla for shower heads Big difference between Tesla and Nebia: Tesla was going after a market where the current participants didn't really care about pushing the state of the art; Nebia isn't. Kohler and Moen in particular have been developing and pushing low-usage plumbing fixtures for a while.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Do the shower heads offered by Kohler and Moen offer flow rates as low as Nebia while still ensuring the person showering "feels" like they're provided enough water?
blacksmith_tb 11y ago
For at least some potential customers, saving water would feel virtuous, above and beyond any savings on their water bills. And/or the State of California may be negotiating with them to place an order for millions of units...

by jonlucc 11y ago

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Their copy on Kickstarter says it pays for itself in 2 years. Think of it like Tesla for shower heads: Yeah, its expensive. Yeah, they're selling upmarket first. But it has a the potential to save a lot of water across the world if they ramp quickly and can drive the price down. (EDIT: Luckily, you don't need gigafactories for showerheads. It appears that their design can use traditional manufacturing methods, so it won't be terribly capital intensive.) Places where water is a cost center (Hotels, AirBnB hosts, gyms, etc) would probably be the primary demand drivers to start.

Plough_Jogger 11y ago
The analogy to Tesla is a poor one; this product is easily reproducible, and the homeware space is rife with imitation products that are notoriously difficult to protect with IP. I feel this product is more suitable for an infomercial than VC investment.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Disagree. Tesla gave its patents away (short answer. long answer is they'll license them to you for no cost if you play nicely). You can still patent things in the US, as well as enforce your trademarks.
  - nerfhammer 11y ago
    Tesla's products are not easily reproducible regardless
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Technically, the hardware is easily reproducible (battery pack and electric motors). Its the software and firmware where the magic sauce lies, as well as the supercharger network and their unbeatable service. I concede that anyone could copy a shower head and that you're relying on the rule of law to protect your invention. I don't see the problem with that, as that's how most manufacturing operates in the 21st century.
vonmoltke 11y ago
> Their copy on Kickstarter says it pays for itself in 2 years. That is highly dependent on what they calculate for prices and what shower heads they compare to. Their main website shows savings examples of anywhere from $89.05/year (Miami) to $399.68 (San Francisco) for two nine-minute showers per day. This is presumably comparing against a 2.5 GPM head, since their head uses 0.75 GPM and they claim a 70% reduction in water usage. Comparing to one of the many 1.5 GPM or 1.75 GPM heads will obviously lead to significantly less savings. > Think of it like Tesla for shower heads Big difference between Tesla and Nebia: Tesla was going after a market where the current participants didn't really care about pushing the state of the art; Nebia isn't. Kohler and Moen in particular have been developing and pushing low-usage plumbing fixtures for a while.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Do the shower heads offered by Kohler and Moen offer flow rates as low as Nebia while still ensuring the person showering "feels" like they're provided enough water?

blacksmith_tb 11y ago

For at least some potential customers, saving water would feel virtuous, above and beyond any savings on their water bills. And/or the State of California may be negotiating with them to place an order for millions of units...