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So you're saying we should bow down to these students, and we should stop teaching law students about rape law and not even use the word "violation" in terms of

by joesmo 11y ago

So you're saying we should bow down to these students, and we should stop teaching law students about rape law and not even use the word "violation" in terms of law to bow down to students' incredibly stupid wishes? Why not just abolish universities altogether? Hell, why not abolish laws and all of society while we're at it. Since it no longer matters that we're teaching students anything at all, only that they have a "supportive environment." What a load of shit.

danharaj 11y ago
How would we abolish universities? If universities are voluntary gatherings of professors and students transformed into cultural institutions that persist longer than any teacher-student relationship, then they are going to exist and the only way you could prevent it is through force. Authoritarian much? You seem to be incredibly enraged at the idea of freedom of association: The liberty to associate with other people or not on your own terms. It turns out that universities act as loci of power in the larger hierarchy of our society: Universities confer status and distinction, legitimize skillsets, and some act as hubs of commingling for people who belong to the ruling class. Students need to go to university in order to participate in society as dignified individuals. That is what is at stake here, and your anger is merely anxiety at the idea of an institution of power falling into the hands of powerless people. You would rather they degrade themselves in order to receive a piece of paper that says they are good enough to be respectable parts of modern society. I trust university students. There are two reasons to go to university: To go into debt so you can get a professional job, and to learn. I trust university students to transform universities in a way that benefits them most. I do not trust the powers that be to do anything but degrade universities into businesses for profit that hold individual legitimacy for ransom, or propaganda centers for the prevailing power structures that shape our society. If professors want to teach, they ought to lead, not bludgeon students with the authority granted to them by institutional forces. Unquestionable authority is a tumor in any healthy society. When it pervades the system, society itself is terribly ill.
- hueving 11y ago
  Professors cannot lead though without walking through a landmine of political correctness that could lead to a title 9 inquisition. Students have reached a point where they are not interested in being intellectually challenged in any way that may upset them.
  - joesmo 11y ago
    It sounds to me like they're not interested in being in class at all, are causing disruptions in the education of the ones that are, and should be kicked out of university.
- joesmo 11y ago
  My argument is obviously not meant to be taken literally. It's a _reductio ad absurdum_ argument. I should have said destroy instead of abolish, as that is already happening because students are refusing to learn because they're offended by words like 'violation,' and 'rape.' If students refuse to learn even the basic concept of 'violating the law', how can they possibly have hope of becoming lawyers? They can't. They're literally destroying the educational system because they also won't drop out and shovel garbage or whatever they're best at (obviously not much given their incredibly high stupidity). Do you even have universities anymore at that point? No.
  - danharaj 11y ago
    It's actually a straw man argument, unless you show that the reasoning I laid out implies that universities will be destroyed. That's probably going to get you fighting down a slippery slope, so I'm not too confident you'll show it to be the case :) Corporate lawyers don't need to know about rape law, for example. I am neither a law student nor a law professor. It's not my lot to tell them how to hash out their conflicts. I think they can come to an agreement that accommodates everyone; for example, exemptions from class for the period where rape law is discussed. I think universities will survive if they treat their students as worth negotiating with rather than griping in public about how childish their students are. I went to university. I know how condescending professors can be. I think it's reasonable to infer that this recent spate of public griping stems from anxiety, because authority that is challenged always feels anxious.

by joesmo 11y ago

danharaj 11y ago

How would we abolish universities? If universities are voluntary gatherings of professors and students transformed into cultural institutions that persist longer than any teacher-student relationship, then they are going to exist and the only way you could prevent it is through force. Authoritarian much? You seem to be incredibly enraged at the idea of freedom of association: The liberty to associate with other people or not on your own terms. It turns out that universities act as loci of power in the larger hierarchy of our society: Universities confer status and distinction, legitimize skillsets, and some act as hubs of commingling for people who belong to the ruling class. Students need to go to university in order to participate in society as dignified individuals. That is what is at stake here, and your anger is merely anxiety at the idea of an institution of power falling into the hands of powerless people. You would rather they degrade themselves in order to receive a piece of paper that says they are good enough to be respectable parts of modern society. I trust university students. There are two reasons to go to university: To go into debt so you can get a professional job, and to learn. I trust university students to transform universities in a way that benefits them most. I do not trust the powers that be to do anything but degrade universities into businesses for profit that hold individual legitimacy for ransom, or propaganda centers for the prevailing power structures that shape our society. If professors want to teach, they ought to lead, not bludgeon students with the authority granted to them by institutional forces. Unquestionable authority is a tumor in any healthy society. When it pervades the system, society itself is terribly ill.

hueving 11y ago
Professors cannot lead though without walking through a landmine of political correctness that could lead to a title 9 inquisition. Students have reached a point where they are not interested in being intellectually challenged in any way that may upset them.
- joesmo 11y ago
  It sounds to me like they're not interested in being in class at all, are causing disruptions in the education of the ones that are, and should be kicked out of university.
joesmo 11y ago
My argument is obviously not meant to be taken literally. It's a _reductio ad absurdum_ argument. I should have said destroy instead of abolish, as that is already happening because students are refusing to learn because they're offended by words like 'violation,' and 'rape.' If students refuse to learn even the basic concept of 'violating the law', how can they possibly have hope of becoming lawyers? They can't. They're literally destroying the educational system because they also won't drop out and shovel garbage or whatever they're best at (obviously not much given their incredibly high stupidity). Do you even have universities anymore at that point? No.
- danharaj 11y ago
  It's actually a straw man argument, unless you show that the reasoning I laid out implies that universities will be destroyed. That's probably going to get you fighting down a slippery slope, so I'm not too confident you'll show it to be the case :) Corporate lawyers don't need to know about rape law, for example. I am neither a law student nor a law professor. It's not my lot to tell them how to hash out their conflicts. I think they can come to an agreement that accommodates everyone; for example, exemptions from class for the period where rape law is discussed. I think universities will survive if they treat their students as worth negotiating with rather than griping in public about how childish their students are. I went to university. I know how condescending professors can be. I think it's reasonable to infer that this recent spate of public griping stems from anxiety, because authority that is challenged always feels anxious.