7 ms·

When they released this a couple of months ago I was pretty excited to try it out. I think the barrier to installation is a bit high. First install Windows 10,

by tigeba 11y ago

When they released this a couple of months ago I was pretty excited to try it out. I think the barrier to installation is a bit high. First install Windows 10, then custom install of VS, install IoT Templates, then about 30 more steps before you get the image to flash on your SD. How about a link to the image I can blast on the SD and kick the tires without a couple hours of downloading and installing prerequisites?

ghurlman 11y ago
While the tool to flash the SD that Microsoft built requires Windows 10, it doesn't require anything else besides a Pi: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm Granted, if you go through the developer site, it points you towards installing what you need to develop software for it. shrug
- s73v3r 11y ago
  There are dozens of other tools available to do the same thing, and yet they had to go build their own?
  - pjc50 11y ago
    Microsoft: Not Invented Here
- free652 11y ago
  >A PC running Windows 10 (Prepared in the previous step) That requirement itself is a big step: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm
  - hamburglar 11y ago
    Especially considering my 8.1 -> 10 upgrade has failed spectacularly several times. I'm not going and buying 10 at retail to try this shit out.
    - morganvachon 11y ago
      For what it's worth, I found on two of my systems that had issues with the upgrade, if I followed the upgrade/activation with a clean install of Windows 10 (giving up the option to return to the previous version of Windows) the installation worked great. I had different but equally show-stopping bugs on my Windows 7 workstation and my wife's Windows 7 laptop until I did that. On my wife's laptop I had even tried a fresh install of Windows 7 followed immediately by the upgrade and hit the same bugs as before (no "Modern" apps would load including Settings, and Explorer.exe was constantly crashing). A clean install of 10 fixed those issues and now it runs great.
    - jabits 11y ago
      Right on topic...
- jsingleton 11y ago
  You can use this python script to convert the image to standard raw format: https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Then flash it with your normal tool such as dd or Win32DiskImager.
  - lawl 11y ago
    Thanks! Made a quick script with this to unpack the other stuff (I couldn't mount the ISO for some reason) however 7z seems to handle the ISO and the MSI file both just fine. In case you're interested: https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
    - jsingleton 11y ago
      Looks good, thanks. I'm on Windows but it should be pretty easy to port to batch or PowerShell. I've used 7z command line before for automation. The script makes an 8GB file by default but it should be possible to change that. Add a parameter for the size of the card or even auto-detect it. I've documented the process and written up my thoughts on IoT core here: https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-raspberry-pi-2-install-and-first-impressions/ https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-r...
- lawl 11y ago
  Quickly made an unpacker script in bash, couldn't test it yet, but it looks like it works. You'll need 7zip and a working installation of python, https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
  - voltagex_ 11y ago
    https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/master/ffu2img/unlockerv.py https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/maste...?
    - lawl 11y ago
      It was in the repo I got the ffu2img script from, forgot to remove it, see https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Fixed now, thanks.
Yuioup 11y ago
I asked the very same question and got downvoted for it.
- rsync 11y ago
  Do not discuss your own downvotes. Do not interrupt the actual discussion to meta-discuss the scoring system.
kozukumi 11y ago
Yeah I was excited to try it out but I can't spend a whole day on getting things working at the moment, just too damn busy. I was hoping I would get an iso I can dd onto an SD card pop it in the RPi and it boot up and give me an IP address to connect and deploy an app to in a few clicks. You know like how I can do with Linux. Still it is a step in the right direction for Microsoft. I am happy to see them doing such things. Competition in the IoT space is a good thing for all.
s73v3r 11y ago
Agreed. There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through.
- eplanit 11y ago
  > There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through. I agree, too -- and this phrase has been on the minds of people while installing Microsoft products for decades now. It's in their DNA somehow, it seems.
blacksmith_tb 11y ago
Maybe some selfless individual can slog through it all, and then use dd to make an image and post it somewhere (which I am sure violates thousands of pages of EULAs, but would be much more in keeping with how Raspbian etc. are distributed).
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
teekert 11y ago
Very funny considering the uneasiness people have towards "putting Linux on a computer". For the Raspberry Pi, the reality is completely reversed as NOOBS is the absolute easiest, most convenient way to put any OS on any computer ever. I really don't understand people who want this, with closed source software the learning stops at some point, you can't learn everything about your Windows-Pi even though it was created for learning! Even the example code (read I2C temp sensor, display using webserver) they give on the home page starts with: "// Copyright (c) Microsoft. All rights reserved.". Why would you want this? Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux?
- nbadg 11y ago
  > Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux? Absolutely, and especially in corporate environments. I'm not saying Windows 10 IoT is any better (I think it's very unlikely to be, but I also haven't evaluated it), but I can say for certain that I wish I had a single, identical python library for any IoT platform that handled interfaces as simply as: with pin_1 as p1: p1.output(1) time.sleep(2) p1.output(0) Now, there are some libraries that approach that level of simplicity once you have your system configuration set up, but that doesn't lend itself to agile development. I want something that works like that out-of-box -- flash it, load code, press go button -- which simply doesn't exist. And, after spending a lot of time writing my own hardware IO library using direct memory access in Python, I don't think there's an OS out there that's capable of doing it (yet). I've spent just way too much time accommodating unfortunate abstractions taken at the linux kernel level (that I understand for historical reasons, but disagree with for future ones). An operating system for IoT done right is, in my opinion, a very lightweight exokernel with some really smart abstractions that just gets out of your way. Then you need a clever (and native) secure networking system, and you're in very good shape.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    How does Arduino (which I've never used) compare to your desired Python library?
bborud 11y ago
Business as usual for Microsoft. There must be something about their business model I'm not getting. Going to microsoft.com with the intent of buying Windows to install it on a naked PC or in a VM on OSX, I have yet to identify an option that allows me to: 1) buy a license, 2) download an ISO image. The closest solution I've seen is to download some exe file that presupposes that I have Windows installed somewhere so I can....do god knows what to get an install going. I know what I came to the site for. Instead the site spends all its energy on selling me on the idea of Windows and then fails to sell me the product. Consistently. For years. Why? Do they not want my business? Is it really so horrible to sell their product to someone who wants to run their OS under VMWare? This is neither hyperbole nor gratuitous negativism, but Microsoft is perhaps the worst company to buy a product from online. Microsoft fixing this is the litmus test for when they might, and I would like to emphasize might, be able to stop sucking.
- christoph 11y ago
  I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. Windows is only £80 or so and there was a big button on the nag screens that took me to the Windows site to buy a licence. Great - credit card in hand I clicked on through and was instantly greeted with buy Windows 8.1 screens. The problem is, I absolutely did not want under any circumstances to install 8.1. I just wanted a legit licence to the already installed 7, which the computer was quite happily running and required no learning/explaining of metro to my mother. For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it.
  - nadams 11y ago
    > I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. That has been known to happen [1] (it's never happened to me personally). I suspect it has something to do with buggy AV or anti-malware software. > For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it. You don't have a Best Buy type store near you? [1] http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/windows-7-hit-by-rash-of-bogus-not-genuine-reports-validation-code-0x8004fe21.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/w...
voltagex_ 11y ago
https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img
- tigeba 11y ago
  Most excellent.

by tigeba 11y ago

ghurlman 11y ago

While the tool to flash the SD that Microsoft built requires Windows 10, it doesn't require anything else besides a Pi: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm Granted, if you go through the developer site, it points you towards installing what you need to develop software for it. shrug

s73v3r 11y ago
There are dozens of other tools available to do the same thing, and yet they had to go build their own?
- pjc50 11y ago
  Microsoft: Not Invented Here
free652 11y ago
>A PC running Windows 10 (Prepared in the previous step) That requirement itself is a big step: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm
- hamburglar 11y ago
  Especially considering my 8.1 -> 10 upgrade has failed spectacularly several times. I'm not going and buying 10 at retail to try this shit out.
  - morganvachon 11y ago
    For what it's worth, I found on two of my systems that had issues with the upgrade, if I followed the upgrade/activation with a clean install of Windows 10 (giving up the option to return to the previous version of Windows) the installation worked great. I had different but equally show-stopping bugs on my Windows 7 workstation and my wife's Windows 7 laptop until I did that. On my wife's laptop I had even tried a fresh install of Windows 7 followed immediately by the upgrade and hit the same bugs as before (no "Modern" apps would load including Settings, and Explorer.exe was constantly crashing). A clean install of 10 fixed those issues and now it runs great.
  - jabits 11y ago
    Right on topic...
jsingleton 11y ago
You can use this python script to convert the image to standard raw format: https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Then flash it with your normal tool such as dd or Win32DiskImager.
- lawl 11y ago
  Thanks! Made a quick script with this to unpack the other stuff (I couldn't mount the ISO for some reason) however 7z seems to handle the ISO and the MSI file both just fine. In case you're interested: https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
  - jsingleton 11y ago
    Looks good, thanks. I'm on Windows but it should be pretty easy to port to batch or PowerShell. I've used 7z command line before for automation. The script makes an 8GB file by default but it should be possible to change that. Add a parameter for the size of the card or even auto-detect it. I've documented the process and written up my thoughts on IoT core here: https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-raspberry-pi-2-install-and-first-impressions/ https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-r...
lawl 11y ago
Quickly made an unpacker script in bash, couldn't test it yet, but it looks like it works. You'll need 7zip and a working installation of python, https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/master/ffu2img/unlockerv.py https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/maste...?
  - lawl 11y ago
    It was in the repo I got the ffu2img script from, forgot to remove it, see https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Fixed now, thanks.

Yuioup 11y ago

I asked the very same question and got downvoted for it.

rsync 11y ago
Do not discuss your own downvotes. Do not interrupt the actual discussion to meta-discuss the scoring system.

kozukumi 11y ago

Yeah I was excited to try it out but I can't spend a whole day on getting things working at the moment, just too damn busy. I was hoping I would get an iso I can dd onto an SD card pop it in the RPi and it boot up and give me an IP address to connect and deploy an app to in a few clicks. You know like how I can do with Linux. Still it is a step in the right direction for Microsoft. I am happy to see them doing such things. Competition in the IoT space is a good thing for all.

s73v3r 11y ago

Agreed. There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through.

eplanit 11y ago
> There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through. I agree, too -- and this phrase has been on the minds of people while installing Microsoft products for decades now. It's in their DNA somehow, it seems.

blacksmith_tb 11y ago

Maybe some selfless individual can slog through it all, and then use dd to make an image and post it somewhere (which I am sure violates thousands of pages of EULAs, but would be much more in keeping with how Raspbian etc. are distributed).

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

teekert 11y ago

Very funny considering the uneasiness people have towards "putting Linux on a computer". For the Raspberry Pi, the reality is completely reversed as NOOBS is the absolute easiest, most convenient way to put any OS on any computer ever. I really don't understand people who want this, with closed source software the learning stops at some point, you can't learn everything about your Windows-Pi even though it was created for learning! Even the example code (read I2C temp sensor, display using webserver) they give on the home page starts with: "// Copyright (c) Microsoft. All rights reserved.". Why would you want this? Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux?

nbadg 11y ago
> Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux? Absolutely, and especially in corporate environments. I'm not saying Windows 10 IoT is any better (I think it's very unlikely to be, but I also haven't evaluated it), but I can say for certain that I wish I had a single, identical python library for any IoT platform that handled interfaces as simply as: with pin_1 as p1: p1.output(1) time.sleep(2) p1.output(0) Now, there are some libraries that approach that level of simplicity once you have your system configuration set up, but that doesn't lend itself to agile development. I want something that works like that out-of-box -- flash it, load code, press go button -- which simply doesn't exist. And, after spending a lot of time writing my own hardware IO library using direct memory access in Python, I don't think there's an OS out there that's capable of doing it (yet). I've spent just way too much time accommodating unfortunate abstractions taken at the linux kernel level (that I understand for historical reasons, but disagree with for future ones). An operating system for IoT done right is, in my opinion, a very lightweight exokernel with some really smart abstractions that just gets out of your way. Then you need a clever (and native) secure networking system, and you're in very good shape.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  How does Arduino (which I've never used) compare to your desired Python library?

bborud 11y ago

Business as usual for Microsoft. There must be something about their business model I'm not getting. Going to microsoft.com with the intent of buying Windows to install it on a naked PC or in a VM on OSX, I have yet to identify an option that allows me to: 1) buy a license, 2) download an ISO image. The closest solution I've seen is to download some exe file that presupposes that I have Windows installed somewhere so I can....do god knows what to get an install going. I know what I came to the site for. Instead the site spends all its energy on selling me on the idea of Windows and then fails to sell me the product. Consistently. For years. Why? Do they not want my business? Is it really so horrible to sell their product to someone who wants to run their OS under VMWare? This is neither hyperbole nor gratuitous negativism, but Microsoft is perhaps the worst company to buy a product from online. Microsoft fixing this is the litmus test for when they might, and I would like to emphasize might, be able to stop sucking.

christoph 11y ago
I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. Windows is only £80 or so and there was a big button on the nag screens that took me to the Windows site to buy a licence. Great - credit card in hand I clicked on through and was instantly greeted with buy Windows 8.1 screens. The problem is, I absolutely did not want under any circumstances to install 8.1. I just wanted a legit licence to the already installed 7, which the computer was quite happily running and required no learning/explaining of metro to my mother. For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it.
- nadams 11y ago
  > I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. That has been known to happen [1] (it's never happened to me personally). I suspect it has something to do with buggy AV or anti-malware software. > For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it. You don't have a Best Buy type store near you? [1] http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/windows-7-hit-by-rash-of-bogus-not-genuine-reports-validation-code-0x8004fe21.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/w...

voltagex_ 11y ago

https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img

tigeba 11y ago
Most excellent.