5 ms·

Designers are not Programmers

15 points by twampss 17y ago

markbnine 17y ago
Being able to program corrupts your ability to focus solely on the human. Lines like this make me think the whole thing is an overworked troll. Domain name included. I couldn't be bothered to read much more. That said, my favorite part is from the profile: my current snowboard is from Lib Tech. I live in a small cottage in a remote part of the Swiss Alps sweet...
- LukasMathis 17y ago
  Why does that line make you think my essay was supposed to be a troll? Is there something logically or obviously wrong with that line?
jeffreylo 17y ago
Sure, human usability factors are important in designing applications, but Mr. Mathis sets up a false dichotomy between design and programming. You can do both - just recognize where you're weak and delegate responsibility where needed.
- LukasMathis 17y ago
  My original goal was to help people recognize the problem, not to start some kind of war about it. I now regret having written the whole thing in a way which caused some controversy.
jlangenauer 17y ago
As someone who's also sat on both sides of the fence, as a coder and a designer, I think there's a fair bit of truth in what the OP is saying. I can think of a number of times where I've restrained my UI ambitions in order to keep code elegant, and also a number of times where I've been presented with a UI, and been forced to implement it. The latter case has always produced better designs, despite my whinging at the time ("Holy fuck, does this Photoshop-jockey even realise there's a difference between print and web design?" etc), because it forces me to produce code to make the UI, rather than leading me to a compromise between the code and the design.
- LukasMathis 17y ago
  Thank you for writing this. It's exactly the same experience I've had, and the reason why I wrote the article.
jchonphoenix 17y ago
Doesn't the author contradict himself? He states that one should not both be a designer and know how to code because one is detrimental to the other. Yet, he himself must both know how to code and design (which would mean he's not following his own advice). If not, then this article is just the ramblings of an uninformed individual, for he would be passing judgement about an art he has no first hand knowledge with.
- LukasMathis 17y ago
  Yes, I am both. Which is why I've noticed that I'm often conflicted between the two goals. I'm not sure where the contradiction lies? The original goal of the article was to alert people who do both to this conflict, so that they can handle it consciously. I think I overstated that premise while writing it, which I now regret.
dasil003 17y ago
This article is about 10 times too long for the point it is trying to make. It could be summed up as "don't let implementation considerations quash your UX creativity." That's a valid consideration for sure. But as a full UX developer with a nice bell curve of experience centered squarely over javascript and server side programming, and extending respectively through Photoshop/Illustrator on one side and Linux server admin on the other, I can speak from experience that when you have hard separations between the skill sets of your team, a lot gets lost in translation. Knowing code is pretty much orthogonal to design creativity. If your goal is to create the most stunning and innovative design possible then I think there is some merit to the OA's thesis. However, most the time, time-to-market and length of iteration cycles are far more important than breaking new design ground (not to mention giving up the usability capital of tried-and-true UI design elements). Having a cross-disciplinary team makes it possible to start performing usability testing and iterating rapidly even before graphic design is finalized. 9 times out of 10 this is going to result in a better product than trying to silo your people to force them "out of the box". If a mind-blowingly original design is what you want, you just need more creative people, not less cross-disciplinary ones.
jorsh 17y ago
Designers & programmers are not necessarily good writers either.
- LukasMathis 17y ago
  English is not my first language. I apologize for my English; I do the best I can.
richcollins 17y ago
When you write code, your goal is to create a clean, maintainable, readable code base. When you design the user experience, your goal is to create a human-friendly application. I like human friendly code as well. Design is an important consideration any time you are making tools for other people to use.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
losethos 17y ago
President says, "Make sure the astronauts use a nice pen and notebook for history." NASA says, "okay."
etherael 17y ago
To reduce this argument infinitely, isn't the best user experience going to be a nice shiny button to push that says (and does) "Do what I mean". Actually, better yet if I don't even have to push it and it just reads my mind and reacts. Inasmuch as the above is not actually possible, thought needs to be given to what is possible. In arriving at this conclusion haven't you just said "You need to know how to code" in a round about fashion? Maybe you don't need to remember all the API's, all the tags, every syntactic piece off by heart, sure, but just forgetting about what is real and going off into a fantasy world is not going to get you a useful result either.

15 points by twampss 17y ago

Being able to program corrupts your ability to focus solely on the human. Lines like this make me think the whole thing is an overworked troll. Domain name included. I couldn't be bothered to read much more. That said, my favorite part is from the profile: my current snowboard is from Lib Tech. I live in a small cottage in a remote part of the Swiss Alps sweet...

LukasMathis 17y ago
Why does that line make you think my essay was supposed to be a troll? Is there something logically or obviously wrong with that line?

jeffreylo 17y ago

Sure, human usability factors are important in designing applications, but Mr. Mathis sets up a false dichotomy between design and programming. You can do both - just recognize where you're weak and delegate responsibility where needed.

LukasMathis 17y ago
My original goal was to help people recognize the problem, not to start some kind of war about it. I now regret having written the whole thing in a way which caused some controversy.

jlangenauer 17y ago

As someone who's also sat on both sides of the fence, as a coder and a designer, I think there's a fair bit of truth in what the OP is saying. I can think of a number of times where I've restrained my UI ambitions in order to keep code elegant, and also a number of times where I've been presented with a UI, and been forced to implement it. The latter case has always produced better designs, despite my whinging at the time ("Holy fuck, does this Photoshop-jockey even realise there's a difference between print and web design?" etc), because it forces me to produce code to make the UI, rather than leading me to a compromise between the code and the design.

LukasMathis 17y ago
Thank you for writing this. It's exactly the same experience I've had, and the reason why I wrote the article.

jchonphoenix 17y ago

Doesn't the author contradict himself? He states that one should not both be a designer and know how to code because one is detrimental to the other. Yet, he himself must both know how to code and design (which would mean he's not following his own advice). If not, then this article is just the ramblings of an uninformed individual, for he would be passing judgement about an art he has no first hand knowledge with.

LukasMathis 17y ago
Yes, I am both. Which is why I've noticed that I'm often conflicted between the two goals. I'm not sure where the contradiction lies? The original goal of the article was to alert people who do both to this conflict, so that they can handle it consciously. I think I overstated that premise while writing it, which I now regret.

dasil003 17y ago

This article is about 10 times too long for the point it is trying to make. It could be summed up as "don't let implementation considerations quash your UX creativity." That's a valid consideration for sure. But as a full UX developer with a nice bell curve of experience centered squarely over javascript and server side programming, and extending respectively through Photoshop/Illustrator on one side and Linux server admin on the other, I can speak from experience that when you have hard separations between the skill sets of your team, a lot gets lost in translation. Knowing code is pretty much orthogonal to design creativity. If your goal is to create the most stunning and innovative design possible then I think there is some merit to the OA's thesis. However, most the time, time-to-market and length of iteration cycles are far more important than breaking new design ground (not to mention giving up the usability capital of tried-and-true UI design elements). Having a cross-disciplinary team makes it possible to start performing usability testing and iterating rapidly even before graphic design is finalized. 9 times out of 10 this is going to result in a better product than trying to silo your people to force them "out of the box". If a mind-blowingly original design is what you want, you just need more creative people, not less cross-disciplinary ones.

jorsh 17y ago

Designers & programmers are not necessarily good writers either.

LukasMathis 17y ago
English is not my first language. I apologize for my English; I do the best I can.

richcollins 17y ago

When you write code, your goal is to create a clean, maintainable, readable code base. When you design the user experience, your goal is to create a human-friendly application. I like human friendly code as well. Design is an important consideration any time you are making tools for other people to use.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

losethos 17y ago

President says, "Make sure the astronauts use a nice pen and notebook for history." NASA says, "okay."

etherael 17y ago

To reduce this argument infinitely, isn't the best user experience going to be a nice shiny button to push that says (and does) "Do what I mean". Actually, better yet if I don't even have to push it and it just reads my mind and reacts. Inasmuch as the above is not actually possible, thought needs to be given to what is possible. In arriving at this conclusion haven't you just said "You need to know how to code" in a round about fashion? Maybe you don't need to remember all the API's, all the tags, every syntactic piece off by heart, sure, but just forgetting about what is real and going off into a fantasy world is not going to get you a useful result either.