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He repeats the phase that college is not trauma but ignores that during the college phase of young adult lives many mental health issues arise in an environment

by comrh 11y ago

He repeats the phase that college is not trauma but ignores that during the college phase of young adult lives many mental health issues arise in an environment without the only support system a child usually knows, their family. Suicide is the leading cause of death[1] for college students and this guy is going to criticize the addition of resources to help handle stress? It just reads like ignorance. 1: http://news.virginia.edu/content/more-us-college-students-die-suicide-alcohol-related-causes-uva-researchers-find http://news.virginia.edu/content/more-us-college-students-di...

talmand 11y ago
Funny, I didn't read anything in the article about him complaining over suicide prevention counseling. I believe you are taking what he's saying and pushing too far to prove some point that no one brought up.
- lprubin 11y ago
  Some of the measures the OP is railing against can help stop students from needing suicide prevention counseling, counseling which is not 100% successful. If we can help reduce the number of students who even contemplate suicide, I'd say that's a noble goal. And I personally think the point is very relevant. OP says students are coddled and campus stress isn't a big deal. GP brings up statistics showing that campus stress IS a big deal because it can lead to suicide. Seem very relevant to me.
  - talmand 11y ago
    "Some of the measures?", which proves my point. Instead of hearing the message some people choose to just complain. Yes, college can be stressful. Life can be stressful. Previous generations of college students did not require counseling for nearly every single aspect of college life, which is what the author is actually railing against and not "some" of the measures. I fail to see the author calling for measures that will increase suicide in college students. You are debating a point no one made.
    - belenos46 11y ago
      >Previous generations of college students did not require counseling for nearly every single aspect of college life Well, actually they probably did. That's why we have all these statistics telling us how many kids in college kill themselves. Because they needed those things.
      - talmand 11y ago
        See, I like how far off track this discussion has gotten from the author's complaint. Let's needle one little aspect of the guy's message, that he didn't even bring up, so we can decide he's wrong overall. Right? There are many reasons for one to go the route of suicide, and in many cases no degree of counseling would help. But, for counseling to help it needs to address the root causes of the problem for that person, which may be unique to that person. Almost all of the programs the author is complaining about will not address that in any way. Especially the programs that don't even involve much stress to begin with. As for suicide rates, I'm curious as to how far off the statistics you are referring to are from the national average. Personally, right now, I'm more concerned over the suicide rates of soldiers.
        comrh 11y ago
        I'm talking about mental health, with one of the most tragic outcomes being suicide. > in many cases no degree of counseling would help In many cases? Really? > for counseling to help it needs to address the root causes of the problem for that person, That just isn't true. There are cognitive, behavioral and a combination of both that help people all the time. Therapy that focuses on changing behavior patterns (ie CBT) and not on your root causes are often most effective. Many therapists also use therapy dogs because they're so effective, something this guy railed against like it was turning students into children. > I'm more concerned over the suicide rates of soldiers. How is that related?
        talmand 11y ago
        In many cases, yes. Otherwise it implies that no one in counseling ever commits suicide. It happens. Ignoring that helps nothing. Notice that I said many, not all nor most, but you put extra focus on it as if I did. It is true, but I'll admit it's not true for everyone. People's reasons for suicide can be quite complex and often times no one but the person knows or understands the reasoning. To change behaviors without addressing the root causes of the behavior provides the possibility of the behavior returning. It's much the same with alcoholism and drug addiction. How is this discussion related to the original article that didn't bring this subject matter up? It's related because suicide rates came up in the discussion and I stated that I'm personally more worried over soldiers returning from war who receive next to no help versus students who agonize getting counseling over what classes they should take next semester. If a student is depressed and considering suicide because they feel they are failing themselves, their parents, or whatever to the point of considering suicide, then I want help available for them. But then, no one here has said anything about being against that, right?
- saint_fiasco 11y ago
  Suicide prevention counselling should be one of the last lines of defence, not the first. Reducing stress is an overall better policy, as long as it doesn't get in the way of receiving an actual education. I think that's an important conversation to have.
  - talmand 11y ago
    I believe that the message the author was trying to give was that in his opinion the coddling of the students or counseling for almost every aspect of college life is detrimental to the educational goals of the student and their future. But some people just want to debate points that no one brought up. This is an attempt to change his message from "I think we're coddling students too much" to "I want to get rid of programs that prevent student suicide.", which is simply a ridiculous accusation. Why do so many people feel the need to redefine people's words/thoughts and dictate what they mean?
    - saint_fiasco 11y ago
      Ignoring suicide, I think there is still value in reducing needless stress so students can focus on learning. My college doesn't have counselors, and I wish it had,if only to help me navigate the stupid bureaucracy that adults insist anyone should be able to navigate. Instead, I find myself more comfortable and less stressed at my actual job, so it's not just that I'm "coddled", or that I expect to be sheltered from how the real world works.
      - talmand 11y ago
        Maybe the solution is to determine what is causing the symptoms to deal with that instead of treating them with counselors for everything. If it's determined that counselors is the way to go for the root cause, then by all means let's give it a shot. Especially with colleges have nothing in place. But let's not dismiss concerns over too much. But, I agree, helping students focus more on learning is a good thing. Then again, let's not remove life lessons in the process. Such as dealing with bureaucracy.
- comrh 11y ago
  I said "this guy is going to criticize the addition of resources to help handle stress". Not "this guy wants to stop suicide counseling!!!".
  - talmand 11y ago
    You brought up suicide. You even gave a source. If I concluded your intentions incorrectly, I apologize. But then I fail to understand why you brought it up in the first place.
    - comrh 11y ago
      As a data point to support that college is indeed a very stressful environment and deserving of a lot of counseling resources.

by comrh 11y ago

talmand 11y ago

Funny, I didn't read anything in the article about him complaining over suicide prevention counseling. I believe you are taking what he's saying and pushing too far to prove some point that no one brought up.

lprubin 11y ago
Some of the measures the OP is railing against can help stop students from needing suicide prevention counseling, counseling which is not 100% successful. If we can help reduce the number of students who even contemplate suicide, I'd say that's a noble goal. And I personally think the point is very relevant. OP says students are coddled and campus stress isn't a big deal. GP brings up statistics showing that campus stress IS a big deal because it can lead to suicide. Seem very relevant to me.
- talmand 11y ago
  "Some of the measures?", which proves my point. Instead of hearing the message some people choose to just complain. Yes, college can be stressful. Life can be stressful. Previous generations of college students did not require counseling for nearly every single aspect of college life, which is what the author is actually railing against and not "some" of the measures. I fail to see the author calling for measures that will increase suicide in college students. You are debating a point no one made.
  - belenos46 11y ago
    >Previous generations of college students did not require counseling for nearly every single aspect of college life Well, actually they probably did. That's why we have all these statistics telling us how many kids in college kill themselves. Because they needed those things.
    - talmand 11y ago
      See, I like how far off track this discussion has gotten from the author's complaint. Let's needle one little aspect of the guy's message, that he didn't even bring up, so we can decide he's wrong overall. Right? There are many reasons for one to go the route of suicide, and in many cases no degree of counseling would help. But, for counseling to help it needs to address the root causes of the problem for that person, which may be unique to that person. Almost all of the programs the author is complaining about will not address that in any way. Especially the programs that don't even involve much stress to begin with. As for suicide rates, I'm curious as to how far off the statistics you are referring to are from the national average. Personally, right now, I'm more concerned over the suicide rates of soldiers.
      - comrh 11y ago
        I'm talking about mental health, with one of the most tragic outcomes being suicide. > in many cases no degree of counseling would help In many cases? Really? > for counseling to help it needs to address the root causes of the problem for that person, That just isn't true. There are cognitive, behavioral and a combination of both that help people all the time. Therapy that focuses on changing behavior patterns (ie CBT) and not on your root causes are often most effective. Many therapists also use therapy dogs because they're so effective, something this guy railed against like it was turning students into children. > I'm more concerned over the suicide rates of soldiers. How is that related?
        talmand 11y ago
        In many cases, yes. Otherwise it implies that no one in counseling ever commits suicide. It happens. Ignoring that helps nothing. Notice that I said many, not all nor most, but you put extra focus on it as if I did. It is true, but I'll admit it's not true for everyone. People's reasons for suicide can be quite complex and often times no one but the person knows or understands the reasoning. To change behaviors without addressing the root causes of the behavior provides the possibility of the behavior returning. It's much the same with alcoholism and drug addiction. How is this discussion related to the original article that didn't bring this subject matter up? It's related because suicide rates came up in the discussion and I stated that I'm personally more worried over soldiers returning from war who receive next to no help versus students who agonize getting counseling over what classes they should take next semester. If a student is depressed and considering suicide because they feel they are failing themselves, their parents, or whatever to the point of considering suicide, then I want help available for them. But then, no one here has said anything about being against that, right?
saint_fiasco 11y ago
Suicide prevention counselling should be one of the last lines of defence, not the first. Reducing stress is an overall better policy, as long as it doesn't get in the way of receiving an actual education. I think that's an important conversation to have.
- talmand 11y ago
  I believe that the message the author was trying to give was that in his opinion the coddling of the students or counseling for almost every aspect of college life is detrimental to the educational goals of the student and their future. But some people just want to debate points that no one brought up. This is an attempt to change his message from "I think we're coddling students too much" to "I want to get rid of programs that prevent student suicide.", which is simply a ridiculous accusation. Why do so many people feel the need to redefine people's words/thoughts and dictate what they mean?
  - saint_fiasco 11y ago
    Ignoring suicide, I think there is still value in reducing needless stress so students can focus on learning. My college doesn't have counselors, and I wish it had,if only to help me navigate the stupid bureaucracy that adults insist anyone should be able to navigate. Instead, I find myself more comfortable and less stressed at my actual job, so it's not just that I'm "coddled", or that I expect to be sheltered from how the real world works.
    - talmand 11y ago
      Maybe the solution is to determine what is causing the symptoms to deal with that instead of treating them with counselors for everything. If it's determined that counselors is the way to go for the root cause, then by all means let's give it a shot. Especially with colleges have nothing in place. But let's not dismiss concerns over too much. But, I agree, helping students focus more on learning is a good thing. Then again, let's not remove life lessons in the process. Such as dealing with bureaucracy.
comrh 11y ago
I said "this guy is going to criticize the addition of resources to help handle stress". Not "this guy wants to stop suicide counseling!!!".
- talmand 11y ago
  You brought up suicide. You even gave a source. If I concluded your intentions incorrectly, I apologize. But then I fail to understand why you brought it up in the first place.
  - comrh 11y ago
    As a data point to support that college is indeed a very stressful environment and deserving of a lot of counseling resources.