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China is devaluing yuan for quite a while, but usually more smoothly. Will this that do the trick or there is problem in fundamentals? Like debt is growing too

China is devaluing yuan for quite a while, but usually more smoothly. Will this that do the trick or there is problem in fundamentals? Like debt is growing too fast comparing to rest of the economy. Moreover, will China start making transition from cheap labour, efficiency based economy to innovation based one. Does government is aware of that challenge or they try to execute strategy for old model, that used to work, but may not help to make that transition?

sdrothrock 11y ago
> China is devaluing yen Typo? If China's devaluing yen, could you link me to a source?
- maaku 11y ago
  I assume he meant yuan.
somerandomone 11y ago
As long as the government doesn't allow unobstructed access to foreign websites that aren't even remotely related to politics I don't see that transition any time soon. </rant>
- Xophmeister 11y ago
  I'm the last person to be an apologist for the Great Firewall, but how does it preclude the OP's point? The Chinese-language web and Chinese Internet users represent a pretty sizeable chuck, to the point that it's self-sustainable and innovation definitely occurs within this space. The Great Firewall just results in a walled garden; access to Facebook isn't going to magically spur innovation! (Don't get me wrong: The Great Firewall is not a good thing, but I don't see it being wholly relevant here.)
  - somerandomone 11y ago
    First of all, that comment is mixed with a bit of rant. But seriously, the issue is so much more than mere access to Facebook. The connection to GitHub, Google Code, or anything via ssh or HTTPS in general is slow, flaky and frustrating. This poses a cost on acquiring latest news and technology, collaborating and deploying. AS for the walled garden, there's a Chinese saying of 闭门造车, which says if you build a cart with a closed door without any exchange of ideas, you can't make much progress. (Though that's not what the phrase originally meant, but the meaning when the phrase evolved)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
>Moreover, will China start making transition from cheap labour, efficiency based economy to innovation based one. This is my biggest skepticism towards China. They are simply not an aspirational brand. Who says "I buy Vietnamese so someday I can buy Chinese"? No, they say "I buy Chinese so someday I can buy European." It doesn't matter how much of my dad's semiconductor research they steal (>10,000 hacking attempts from China EVERY DAY at an IVY LEAGUE INSTITUTION), China will never be sexy. That's why Titans like Renren and Weibo are huge in China while almost nobody outside the Middle Kingdom could give a damn. Name one luxury product that says "Made in China" without being accompanied by "Designed in California." If the Chinese government let go of their iron grip of culture, maybe something remotely approaching cool will come out of China, but that's a can of worms they would rather keep shut. It should be no surprise that even Hong Kongers are openly racist towards mainlanders: China has no brand.
- droopyEyelids 11y ago
  Precisely the same thing was said about Japan. I know Japanese products don't have special cache now, but there was a time when the phrase "Jap crap" was in common circulation, and then a time afterwards where Sony took over the world. It seems entirely plausible to me that China is working through the same historical process. Consider the possibilities of Foxcon- they already manufacture the most desirable consumer devices in the world.
  - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
    I'm not entirely convinced. Japan didn't only invade America with electronics, it came with a widely appealing culture as well. Sushi, anime, jpop, all of these things made Japan more interesting than the gadgets it made. Foxconn does indeed produce excellent electronics, but they're largely designed elsewhere. Most Chinese-designed consumer products lack appeal outside of China. The reason I harp on about culture is because it drives fashion. The Chinese government is so adamant about dictating culture that it stamps out the possibility for subcultures to grow and, most crucially, become popular outside the country. Just look at China's film industry. Actually, don't. I've seen what passes for Chinese film media and it could have been written by a machine, or one of those folks from 1984 who release the same book every few years with different character names. Dissent gives rise to new culture: American blacks playing blues becomes classic rock, which becomes punk rock, and so on. A government focused on dictating culture in an age of information is like going to high school and still being dressed by your mom. Meanwhile, peripheral - and far poorer - countries are having cultural booms as their popularity spreads around the globe. Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, heck, not to mention India, all have widely appealing cultural products. If China can't become cool, then they'll remain a factory, subject to the whims of global finance and technology.
MichaelCrawford 11y ago
I understand that Chinese parents are sending their parents to school in the US specifically so Chinese kids can learn to innovate. At some point this will pay off, but I expect that we have not yet educated enough Chinese students to make a real difference to their economy.

sdrothrock 11y ago

> China is devaluing yen Typo? If China's devaluing yen, could you link me to a source?

maaku 11y ago
I assume he meant yuan.

somerandomone 11y ago

As long as the government doesn't allow unobstructed access to foreign websites that aren't even remotely related to politics I don't see that transition any time soon. </rant>

Xophmeister 11y ago
I'm the last person to be an apologist for the Great Firewall, but how does it preclude the OP's point? The Chinese-language web and Chinese Internet users represent a pretty sizeable chuck, to the point that it's self-sustainable and innovation definitely occurs within this space. The Great Firewall just results in a walled garden; access to Facebook isn't going to magically spur innovation! (Don't get me wrong: The Great Firewall is not a good thing, but I don't see it being wholly relevant here.)
- somerandomone 11y ago
  First of all, that comment is mixed with a bit of rant. But seriously, the issue is so much more than mere access to Facebook. The connection to GitHub, Google Code, or anything via ssh or HTTPS in general is slow, flaky and frustrating. This poses a cost on acquiring latest news and technology, collaborating and deploying. AS for the walled garden, there's a Chinese saying of 闭门造车, which says if you build a cart with a closed door without any exchange of ideas, you can't make much progress. (Though that's not what the phrase originally meant, but the meaning when the phrase evolved)

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago

>Moreover, will China start making transition from cheap labour, efficiency based economy to innovation based one. This is my biggest skepticism towards China. They are simply not an aspirational brand. Who says "I buy Vietnamese so someday I can buy Chinese"? No, they say "I buy Chinese so someday I can buy European." It doesn't matter how much of my dad's semiconductor research they steal (>10,000 hacking attempts from China EVERY DAY at an IVY LEAGUE INSTITUTION), China will never be sexy. That's why Titans like Renren and Weibo are huge in China while almost nobody outside the Middle Kingdom could give a damn. Name one luxury product that says "Made in China" without being accompanied by "Designed in California." If the Chinese government let go of their iron grip of culture, maybe something remotely approaching cool will come out of China, but that's a can of worms they would rather keep shut. It should be no surprise that even Hong Kongers are openly racist towards mainlanders: China has no brand.

droopyEyelids 11y ago
Precisely the same thing was said about Japan. I know Japanese products don't have special cache now, but there was a time when the phrase "Jap crap" was in common circulation, and then a time afterwards where Sony took over the world. It seems entirely plausible to me that China is working through the same historical process. Consider the possibilities of Foxcon- they already manufacture the most desirable consumer devices in the world.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  I'm not entirely convinced. Japan didn't only invade America with electronics, it came with a widely appealing culture as well. Sushi, anime, jpop, all of these things made Japan more interesting than the gadgets it made. Foxconn does indeed produce excellent electronics, but they're largely designed elsewhere. Most Chinese-designed consumer products lack appeal outside of China. The reason I harp on about culture is because it drives fashion. The Chinese government is so adamant about dictating culture that it stamps out the possibility for subcultures to grow and, most crucially, become popular outside the country. Just look at China's film industry. Actually, don't. I've seen what passes for Chinese film media and it could have been written by a machine, or one of those folks from 1984 who release the same book every few years with different character names. Dissent gives rise to new culture: American blacks playing blues becomes classic rock, which becomes punk rock, and so on. A government focused on dictating culture in an age of information is like going to high school and still being dressed by your mom. Meanwhile, peripheral - and far poorer - countries are having cultural booms as their popularity spreads around the globe. Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, heck, not to mention India, all have widely appealing cultural products. If China can't become cool, then they'll remain a factory, subject to the whims of global finance and technology.

MichaelCrawford 11y ago

I understand that Chinese parents are sending their parents to school in the US specifically so Chinese kids can learn to innovate. At some point this will pay off, but I expect that we have not yet educated enough Chinese students to make a real difference to their economy.