35 ms·
Uber Is Serving New York’s Outer Boroughs More Than Taxis Are
- GeorgeOrr 11y agoFor a long time Taxi's have had a monopoly on their market. Like any monopoly they under-serve. Nice that Uber is shaking that up.
- radley 11y agoUber is serving Oakland CA waaaaaaay more than taxis ever would.
- ghshephard 11y agoAnd South Peninsula - Getting a Cab in Redwood City, or Cupertino used to be a minimum 30 minute way (Which I never understood - how can it always be 30 minutes, why would there never be a cab 10 minutes away) - and, late at night, Cabs would sometimes just not show up at all. Uber is typically a 5-10 minute call away during the daytime in Redwood City/Cupertino, and later at night, around 9:00 PM, you can get an Uber in < 20 minutes, which is awesome compared to the way it used to be.
- SilasX 11y agoBy coincidence, I just did a hackathon in Redwood City this weekend, and on Friday ~11pm I was able to get one at an office park that arrived just after I made it outside from the 2nd floor. Whatever forces stopped this kind of thing from working before were destroying a lot of value. I know there's always the talk of what cost Uber most be socializing with this service, but even at a 50% fare increase that would have been an extreme improvement over the previous options, so you can't really explain it away as pure cost hiding.
- isubkhankulov 11y agoDo you remember if you paid surge pricing? i would guess thats probably the reason. i'm from NYC but am currently in SF. both cities have surge pricing late at night, or when its raining in NYC. taxi regulations artificially depress prices but Uber may have created a fair (?) way of pricing things properly. hence service becomes faster. i'm sure surge pricing creates incentives for more uber drivers to drive at night over time, hopefully it will even out.
- SilasX 11y agoThere was no surge. It was ~$7 for an 8 minute trip. (!)
- ghshephard 11y agoSome people don't like the surge - I love it. It means that 100% of the time when I take out my mobile phone, and open up the Uber App, I'm going to get an Uber in a major metropolitan area. I then get to decide for myself whether I'm willing to pay that surge price. With Taxi's, the decision is taken out of my hands. There are just no taxi's available during rush periods, and I'm left stranded.
- coldpie 11y ago"Taxis." In English, we use a plain S for plural nouns.
- elros 11y agoIf you're gonna be so delicate about it, at least get it right. I think there are a bunch of different ways of pluralizing English nouns. Oxen and geese think so too...
- ghshephard 11y agoApologies. Normally I catch stuff like that when I read it (but quite often not when I type it) - and it's incredibly frustrating to see. I have an increasing tendency to confuse where/were, there/their, its/it's when I type, and I have to insert a 60 second delay before hitting submit and confirming I haven't blown it. Particularly annoying is the use of 's when it's not needed. Thanks for pointing it out.
- naturalethic 11y agoHN plz stop making certain comments nearly impossible to fucking read on my phone. Thanks.
- JohnyLy 11y agoI am not surprised. Last time I was in New York, I wasn't in downtown and it was so hard for me to get a taxi. There are so many taxis in NYC but most of them stay in the same area. As soon as you are not in a populated area, it's close to impossible to grab a taxi. I am pleased that Uber is making things move.
- smackfu 11y agoIsn't Uber really replacing calling a car service or taxi then?
- jmspring 11y agoSeems like the best use for uber. Honestly, in European capitals I've been in, uber was better in the outskirts than hailing something in the interior. Seems like a logical extension. In some cities, like Tel Aviv, Get Taxi and Uber use a similar model (all licensed cabs) but coverage and penetration matters.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jsilence 11y agoHere in Germany you call a cab with your phone when you are away from the city center. Usually the taxi arrives within ten minutes.
- cmsmith 11y agoYou can do that in the USA too. Generally, the cab will arrive - but in many cases it is not profitable for the driver to come out of their way to pick you up so sometimes they will not. The problem being that cab drivers are mostly independent contractors, and the cab dispatcher and government regulators don't have much ability to force them to do things that will lose money.
- hackuser 11y ago> but in many cases it is not profitable for the driver to come out of their way to pick you up so sometimes they will not How is the same thing profitable for Uber drivers?
- msellout 11y agoUber and Lyft monitor both the driver and passenger. The driver is more confident that the passenger will be present when the driver arrives. The passenger can be more confident that the driver will in fact arrive and not pick up someone else along the way, never telling the dispatcher that they changed their mind. The lack of trust between taxi driver and taxi passenger ruins phone call hails. Once in Austin, I called the dispatcher for a pickup, waited for 2 hours while calling every 15 minutes and being promised a ride in 10 minutes, eventually gave up and walked 5 blocks to a major intersection and immediately hailed a cab off the street. Since taxi passengers can't guarantee they'll get picked up, a taxi passenger will sometimes call multiple companies or pick up a random cab from the street. Since taxi drivers can't guarantee the passenger will be there upon arrival, they will pick up any random person along the way.
- PakG1 11y agoUber drivers will be more geographically distributed to match real-time demand due to their systems. In theory. As well, drivers will be more likely to operate where they live if demand is there. Again, in theory. Therefore, less costly to pick up people.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- brandonmenc 11y agoI was in NYC a couple weeks ago. Uber driver told me his brother drives a cab. I asked if the cabbies were mad at Uber. He said Uber is good for them because it reduced competition among cabbies for cabs. Apparently, before, you'd go pick up your cab for the day and they'd tell you there were none left. And if you did get a cab, the dispatchers would demand money in exchange for sending you good fares. Seems like Uber is good for cabbies, but not necessarily the medallion holders. The TV was also full of anti De Blasio ads from Uber.
- gojomo 11y agoA couple of Las Vegas cabbies have indicated to me that they were hoping Uber would arrive in full force, because the deal they get from the incumbent operators is so bad.
- omegaworks 11y agoBoston Globe had particularly good coverage of the cabbies' plight. https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/01/spotlight/IkU7kjxSy2d1N8eYhDTBaL/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/01/spotlight/IkU7k...
- JshWright 11y agoPlanet Money did a piece on one of the larger medallion holders, that had the same conclusions. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/07/31/428157211/episode-643-the-taxi-king http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/07/31/428157211/episo...
- knd775 11y agoI live in Virginia and have been getting those anti De Blasio ads... I'm not sure why.
- brandonmenc 11y agoI'd guess because there's a lot of commuting between NYC and the DC area.
- jsilence 11y agoHere in Germany you call a cab with your phone when you are away from the city center. Usually the taxi arrives within ten minutes.
- ehmuidifici 11y agoMeanwhile, in Brazil, Uber Drivers are being kidnapped by taxi drivers and get their cars smashed...
- GFischer 11y agoSame here in Uruguay for EasyTaxi drivers (an Uber clone). I was encouraged to apply for at position for Uber in Uruguay, but I'm really not cut out for the work (it involves fighting the extremely strong cab driver's union here, which isn't above kneecapping).
- hackuser 11y agoBut not Upper Manhatten. The way the questions are constructed and the way the author headlines where Uber is superior, rather than inferior (or better yet, rather than both), feels like yet more Ubermania, not balanced analysis. It's getting old. I'm not even quite sure I know mine or the public's interest? Why do I care? Hmmm ... At least, drivers and passengers should be protected, and I think services should be available to as broad a segment of the community as possible. And decisions for the community should be made democratically, not by whoever spends the most.
- 13thLetter 11y ago>And decisions for the community should be made democratically, not by whoever spends the most. Is "What cab service should I, a random private citizen, use?" a decision for the community to be made democratically?
- hackuser 11y agoAn excellent indicator of Ubermania is that the parent comment was voted down to -4. (I don't care about the points.)
- minimaxir 11y agoI took a look at the monthly revenues of Yellow Taxis and the # of total fares with the NYC TLC data set that was released last week. SELECT LEFT(DATE(pickup_datetime),7) as month, SUM(fare_amount) as total_revenue, COUNT(*) as num_fares FROM [nyc-tlc:yellow.trips_2014], [nyc-tlc:yellow.trips_2015] GROUP BY month ORDER BY month Here's the quick-and-dirty output: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NVcScdHtcWvF9oSZGE3_9Nr-XHAuL5sAldtrV-PNh2A/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NVcScdHtcWvF9oSZGE3_... If Uber is eating the TLC's lunch, why isn't there a dramatic shift in revenue loss? (trendline has only a slight decline) However, it does appear the # fares are on a downward trend.
- Axsuul 11y agoIt's important to note that Uber also created a brand new market. Many of my friends, and myself included, would've never considered using taxis "back in the day" when doing errands or day-to-day activities. Alternatives would've been to just drive ourselves or take public transportation. Uber and Lyft have made it frictionless and convenient enough for everyday use. What I'm trying to say is that Uber isn't only cannabilizing the market share of taxis. Yes, they are definitely taking some of that, but more importantly they are differentiating themselves enough to cater to a whole new crowd that wouldn't have ever used taxis in the first place.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- icelancer 11y ago>Many of my friends, and myself included, would've never considered using taxis "back in the day" when doing errands or day-to-day activities Absolutely. I would NEVER use a cab to get to/from the airport. But I will use Uber. Doesn't even have anything to do with pricing - far more to do with service.
- rconti 11y ago... which is interesting, because while it demonstrates that cabs are perhaps not as damaged by Uber's business model as they claim they are, it plays into DeBlasio's arguments that Uber increases congestion. Intuitively, I'd say Ubers spend less time driving around looking for a fare, and a more intelligent dispatching/routing model would decrease fareless miles driven. That said, if it causes a shift from subways, it would increase congestion. I don't think this is a reason for the government to attack Uber. If traffic is a problem congestion charge type systems would be more effective, as it would 'penalize' all players equally; Uber, Taxis, and private vehicles. Of course, there are plenty of reasons for them to attack Uber already; the contractor model, the beg-for-forgiveness model, etc.
- seizethecheese 11y agoEarnings for Uber Driver = (timeDriving - timeLookingForFares) * payRate Earnings for Cab Driver = (timeDriving - timeLookingForFares) * payRate As a taxi driver, timeLookingForFares is heavily dependent on the amount of people hailing cabs per block driven. As an Uber driver, since you are routed to fares automatically the timeLookingForFares variable is dependent on both how far away other cabs are and the density of riders. Clearly cabs should clump in higher density areas.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- cmarschner 11y agoSerious question: are there no taxi apps in the US? You would think cabs would also be routed to the next customer automatically?
- dylanjermiah 11y agoThere are. But, they are inherently limited. Via fixed supply and fixed pricing.
- geon 11y agoExactly what is Limited by supply and price? Surely not the app? Perhaps the dispatcher charges a fee for access to the API?
- 1971genocide 11y agoI listen to NPR and it seems there is a lot of anxiety among people about technology and automation and it seems all doom and gloom, it almost makes me feel guilty. But after I though about for a while I realized its all rubbish and technology is being used as a scapegoat. Technology has allowed constant deflation in the past 40 years for everything from food to transportation due to enormous efficiency gains. If it WAS NOT for technological innovation there would have been a revolution by now, since cost of housing, education and healthcare has shot up ( as well explained by Elizabeth warren's research ). While wages have been dropping in real terms. Essentially technology has allowed people to afford clothes, etc. Without it the average person wouldn't be able to afford anything. So the reality is things like the Uber revolution is not happening fast enough ! The average cost of taxi rides is ridiculous compared to what it was in the past. The real controversy is not Uber causing joblessness. If we want to innovate a lot - there is always going to be constant destruction of old methods. Uber will be replaced with driverless cars, who will be replaced by personalized solar driverless cars, etc. Those jobless people should became part of the supply to bring those changes. ---------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Raghuram Rajan [1] essentially helped me see capitalism and the free market in this new more enlightened light. Capitalism seems to be getting a lot of bad rep since 2008 - but its not the fault of the free market. This medallion bullshit is what is holding the free market behind and creating a welfare system for taxi drivers and billionaires. In a real free market billionaires would quickly lose their wealth as new competition would destroy their wealth. Rather than protect workers - we should try to retrain them for the coming knowledge economy. [1] Dr. Raghuram Rajan predicted the financial crisis in 2005 while working for the IMF. He has a great book called "Saving Capitalism from the Capitalist". His argument for reform is really controversial - essentially he states the US economy is overinflated, the military industrial complex, housing, financial services. While the real economy hasn't been able to grow, compared to germany, etc. He doesn't believe the Keynesian argument about a loss of aggregate demand - there is always demand for things - housing, better healthcare. Its just that the supply side is completely distorted - and this taxi cartel is one example. The US spent trillions on QE to prop up the housing bubble even more - while it could have used that money to retrain the workforce to do more productive things - more doctors, more engineers to create robots. Even though there is no demand for houses at the price that people want to sell. Sure a lot of baby boomers will end up with negative equity but that is capitalism and Free market ! Its your decision to tie up all your wealth on your house rather than invest in your kid's education or pay higher taxes so government could pay if for you and create better healthcare. The government is the biggest culprit, they tried distorting the market by allowing the buyers to have more credit than they could afford. Sorry about being so ranty. But I do not want my industry to be scapegoated.
- kin 11y agoI was in NYC a few weeks ago and Lyft Line was $5 flat rate anywhere in Manhattan! Beats taking the subway if you ask me. On a more related note when I was in Bushwick in Brooklyn it was pretty much impossible to even see a cab let alone hail one. I didn't even think twice about calling an Uber to take me back to the city.
- untog 11y agoI was in NYC a few weeks ago and Lyft Line was $5 flat rate anywhere in Manhattan! Here's the problem with that - it's a heavily subsidised, promo rate. None of us should get used to it, because once Uber/Lyft destroys the other they'll stop doing it.
- jdminhbg 11y agoThat's definitely a limited-time-only offer, but how are Uber or Lyft going to destroy each other? Maybe by erecting some kind of regulatory wall, but otherwise, the barrier to entry seems so low it's hard to imagine one of them winning a monopoly.
- untog 11y agoThe barrier to entry is huge - getting people to download your app and getting drivers to drive those users around is not a simple process. That's why numerous apps have already left the market.
- somberi 11y agoThis is good to know, but not very surprising. NY Taxis are known to refuse rides to outer boroughs. A decade ago, one had to jump into the cab, tell him that the destination is some fancy neighborhood, and then once he flags the meter you tell him the real destination (Queens - gasp; Bronx - sheer cursing). And often when the driver threatens to drop you off midway, you call the authorities while in the cab. For readers who think this is traumatic, it was, especially in winter nights and your destination is not served by Subway. In fact, some friends of mine that are Black had to dress extra nicely for an otherwise casual dinner on Friday nights, just so that the cabbies would think (wrongly) that the fare would be for some nice neighborhood. And one had to make sure, he stands on avenues that are not pointing towards Harlem. It was a done thing for a white buddy to hail the cab, and the black friend gets in (There is a certain choreography that goes into this - the black person had to stand close but not-too-close and in a location where he can apparate after the cab has come to a halt but not in a way that gives him a chance to rev up and scoot). Here is a recent article from Huffpo and Washpo that talks about this in detail: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/23/as-a-black-man-its-hard-to-catch-a-cab-research-shows-even-white-people-know-that/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/23/... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-larosa/nyc-cab-drivers-blacks_b_6116602.html?ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-larosa/nyc-cab-drivers-bl...
- pbreit 11y agoI don't think that's the problem so much as simply that Uber's model is more effective at serving the outer regions.
- jahnu 11y agoOut of curiosity can one not order a regular cab by phone to come and pick you up at a destination and the dispatcher already knows the destination? Where I live that's pretty normal and only costs a tiny bit more.
- juliangregorian 11y agoIn many neighborhoods you can get a car service to do so yes. It's not feasible in all situations however.
- pbreit 11y agoI think it's fairly obvious that the Uber/Lyft model is inherently more effective at serving the outer regions. I'd be more interested to understand if Manhattan congestion is a legitimate concern.
- smackfu 11y agoDoesn't it make sense that street hails would be lower in areas with a lower rider density?
- eyeinthepyramid 11y agoThe title of this article is a little misleading. In absolute terms, medallion cabs are still about 10x more active in outer boroughs than Uber. (~1M rides for Uber vs ~12M rides for green/yellow cabs). It seems like it would be more appropriate to compare these figures to other livery cab companies since that is essentially what Uber is. I don't think it's very surprising that Manhattan has a higher percentage of street hails than the outer boroughs.
- misiti3780 11y agodid they release this uber data to the public: i dont see it in these tables: https://bigquery.cloud.google.com/results/emerald-diagram-436:job_KoU5_gm-fNouSKEPduQqdBA5aUk https://bigquery.cloud.google.com/results/emerald-diagram-43...