7 ms·

Also happens with religion.

nugga 11y ago
There is no similarity between that and religion. Religion by definition is an unjustified belief in supernatural - faith. There is no reason or logical backing for it. It is a malfunction of your reasoning system - perhaps heavy cognitive dissonance.
- sbov 11y ago
  Sounds like love. Or friendship.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- lotharbot 11y ago
  GP said: "assuming that [others] are motivated solely by stupidity." You said: "by definition is an unjustified belief ... no reason or logical backing ... malfunction of your reasoning system" exactly proving the point. You've made a blanket statement regarding anyone who has come to a different conclusion from you regarding the supernatural. It must be stupidity! It can't possibly be justified, or even clear the bar of not-totally-irrational! There's no room to even try to have a conversation, because "by definition" people on the other side are stupid.
  - nugga 11y ago
    No not stupid. I see religion more like a disease. Not many turn religious as adults. 99.99% have it passed down by their parents and their extended family and the culture they live in. They live life without questioning it and can't even see past it. Some people just are lucky to not have it imposed on them or wake up later in their life.
    - lotharbot 11y ago
      > "They live life without questioning it and can't even see past it" I have met very few people like this. And, again, you are making the OP's point. You have it all figured it out -- you know how wrong everyone who disagrees with you is. Whether you call it "stupid" or "a disease" or "irrational", the point is that you're not attempting to learn from them or understand them, you're simply being dismissive of everyone who concludes differently from you.
      - nugga 11y ago
        Maybe I misunderstand the OP's point but I specifically took issue to this very topic, at the expense of my karma apparently, because religion is differente. Religion is 'solved' in the sense that they are man made belief systems, all which proclaim to be true, and most holding mutually exclusive claims between each other. It is not debatable in a way left-right politics and their backers' stances and reasonings are. I'm not hating on them because it is not their fault. I feel for those trapped, I really do. Given time societies turn (and have already turned in large parts) away from it through education and the undrstanding of the universe and the human condition via scientific method. There is no middle ground in this specific instance. You would not entertain an alchemist or an astrologist either. Religion will soon join them in that regard in the collective consciousness.
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        > You would not entertain an alchemist or an astrologist either. Religion will soon join them in that regard in the collective consciousness. And why do you think people won't entertain an alchemist or an astrologist? Why do you think religion will become similar to those disciplines? It's not because people are getting smarter. It's because alchemy is not popular, science is! Most people don't understand a thing about either, but they have a firm opinion. That's just blind faith, the only thing that changes over the centuries is the object of faith. It's completely orthogonal to the discussion about which is right and which is wrong. Most people don't know and don't care, as long as they believe the same thing their peers do, so I wouldn't be quick to judge one group, because the other is not smarter, it just sticks to the currently popular belief.
- tempestn 11y ago
  Here's the thing. Both with the religion argument and in general: even if you're right, your logic is unassailable, and the other person is provably wrong, you will still benefit from not assuming stupidity/broken thinking/etc, and instead seeking to understand the other person's position as thoroughly as possible. At one extreme, you may discover a flaw in your reasoning. Even if not, you may find that while not entirely sound, there are valuable aspects to the other person's point of view, which can make your world-view more nuanced. Or perhaps you will simply confirm your initial perspective... but even then, you're much more likely to inspire the other person to think on the subject than if you come in with the perspective that they're provably wrong (and perhaps a bit pitiable for it). By seeking to really understand someone, you inspire them to do the same for you.

nugga 11y ago

There is no similarity between that and religion. Religion by definition is an unjustified belief in supernatural - faith. There is no reason or logical backing for it. It is a malfunction of your reasoning system - perhaps heavy cognitive dissonance.

sbov 11y ago
Sounds like love. Or friendship.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
lotharbot 11y ago
GP said: "assuming that [others] are motivated solely by stupidity." You said: "by definition is an unjustified belief ... no reason or logical backing ... malfunction of your reasoning system" exactly proving the point. You've made a blanket statement regarding anyone who has come to a different conclusion from you regarding the supernatural. It must be stupidity! It can't possibly be justified, or even clear the bar of not-totally-irrational! There's no room to even try to have a conversation, because "by definition" people on the other side are stupid.
- nugga 11y ago
  No not stupid. I see religion more like a disease. Not many turn religious as adults. 99.99% have it passed down by their parents and their extended family and the culture they live in. They live life without questioning it and can't even see past it. Some people just are lucky to not have it imposed on them or wake up later in their life.
  - lotharbot 11y ago
    > "They live life without questioning it and can't even see past it" I have met very few people like this. And, again, you are making the OP's point. You have it all figured it out -- you know how wrong everyone who disagrees with you is. Whether you call it "stupid" or "a disease" or "irrational", the point is that you're not attempting to learn from them or understand them, you're simply being dismissive of everyone who concludes differently from you.
    - nugga 11y ago
      Maybe I misunderstand the OP's point but I specifically took issue to this very topic, at the expense of my karma apparently, because religion is differente. Religion is 'solved' in the sense that they are man made belief systems, all which proclaim to be true, and most holding mutually exclusive claims between each other. It is not debatable in a way left-right politics and their backers' stances and reasonings are. I'm not hating on them because it is not their fault. I feel for those trapped, I really do. Given time societies turn (and have already turned in large parts) away from it through education and the undrstanding of the universe and the human condition via scientific method. There is no middle ground in this specific instance. You would not entertain an alchemist or an astrologist either. Religion will soon join them in that regard in the collective consciousness.
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        > You would not entertain an alchemist or an astrologist either. Religion will soon join them in that regard in the collective consciousness. And why do you think people won't entertain an alchemist or an astrologist? Why do you think religion will become similar to those disciplines? It's not because people are getting smarter. It's because alchemy is not popular, science is! Most people don't understand a thing about either, but they have a firm opinion. That's just blind faith, the only thing that changes over the centuries is the object of faith. It's completely orthogonal to the discussion about which is right and which is wrong. Most people don't know and don't care, as long as they believe the same thing their peers do, so I wouldn't be quick to judge one group, because the other is not smarter, it just sticks to the currently popular belief.
tempestn 11y ago
Here's the thing. Both with the religion argument and in general: even if you're right, your logic is unassailable, and the other person is provably wrong, you will still benefit from not assuming stupidity/broken thinking/etc, and instead seeking to understand the other person's position as thoroughly as possible. At one extreme, you may discover a flaw in your reasoning. Even if not, you may find that while not entirely sound, there are valuable aspects to the other person's point of view, which can make your world-view more nuanced. Or perhaps you will simply confirm your initial perspective... but even then, you're much more likely to inspire the other person to think on the subject than if you come in with the perspective that they're provably wrong (and perhaps a bit pitiable for it). By seeking to really understand someone, you inspire them to do the same for you.