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Aside from labour issues and collective bargaining over employees getting "shafted", unions are the first to pick up unsafe working practices. As software and t
by yarper 11y ago
Aside from labour issues and collective bargaining over employees getting "shafted", unions are the first to pick up unsafe working practices. As software and tech in general ingrains itself into society the risk of deadly mistakes becomes ever greater - people already die due to bugs, and we can't remove the possibility entirely but we should be damn sure when the finger is pointed at our profession that we've got it covered. The free market typically doesn't cause this kind of enlightenment.
- bmmayer1 11y agoUnionization is part of the free market, provided that it happens without compelled membership or coercion.
- crdoconnor 11y ago>Aside from labour issues and collective bargaining over employees getting "shafted", unions are the first to pick up unsafe working practices. No, the opposite is true. http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/5813/fatalities_higher_at_non-union_mineslike_masseys_upper_big_branch http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/5813/fatalities_higher...
- yarper 11y agoThis is not evidence that unions make labour more dangerous. The last paragraph even in your link is this; "Tougher enforcement of laws, with higher penalties, and stronger safety standards are essential. But unionized miners have the power to enforce those standards before there's an accident, and they can prevent the speed-ups, overwork, and shortcuts that are common in non-union mines, like Upper Big Branch, and that contribute to the dangers of the job. If Congress and Obama want to do something to save miners' lives, they should first of all protect and strengthen their right to organize."
- crdoconnor 11y ago>This is not evidence that unions make labour more dangerous. No, it's evidence that unions help make laborers safer.
- emojiofficer 11y ago"Pick up" as in "clean up"
- crdoconnor 11y agoAh, fair enough.
- yarper 11y agoSorry didn't realise this didn't translate well. I was saying that unions are an important element in worker safety. Miners unions largely have to protect the miners themselves, but software is a discipline where we are much more likely to inflict problems on the general public rather than ourselves. When toyota released the Camry they probably thought that the software was good enough and the risk was "low". Typically people that put their children and loved ones in these kinds of situations though want the risk to be "as absolutely close to zero as possible". The market alone cannot enforce that kind of behaviour is all I was trying to say - that and unions may play a role in promoting this kind of best practice.
- lhc- 11y agoI think he meant, unions are the first to point out and fight to stop unsafe practices (what your linked article states).
- noskynethere 11y agoI may be misunderstanding your point, but you appear to suggest that union workers are at more of a risk than non-union. The link you provided (addressing only mining unions, not all unions) says exactly the opposite: "Looking at these data, only in 2001 were there disproportionately more fatalities (39 percent) in union mines (unions represented 30 percent of coal miners that year) than in non-union mines. Recent figures are more typical. In 2006 through 2009 union mines accounted for 10, 6, 10 and 5 percent, respectively, of all coal mine deaths, but over that period unions represented 15 to 22 percent of coal miners. For those years unionized miners appear to have been one-fourth to one-half as likely to be killed in mine incidents as their non-union peers."