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> Japan’s most famous weapon needs little introduction. Japanese blacksmiths’ method of repeatedly heating and folding the steel made a katana’s sharpness and s

> Japan’s most famous weapon needs little introduction. Japanese blacksmiths’ method of repeatedly heating and folding the steel made a katana’s sharpness and strength unique among the world’s swords. And you can stop reading here. The author probably has not done due diligence on his research.

Kiro 11y ago
What's wrong?
- venomsnake 11y ago
  The techniques in the making are not unique, the performance too. There were a lot of fine swords made everywhere in the world using similar methods. Europe used them IIRC. And we have wootz (which is entirely different beast, but also very high performing steel).
JimmyM 11y ago
I think that people are downvoting you because they're not sure what you're getting at or have an issue with tone, as I think I know what you are referring to here: http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm#.Vchr7RNViko http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm#.Vchr7RNViko The Japanese blacksmiths' method of repeatedly heating and folding the steel was actually a way of countering the poor quality of the raw material they had, according to some other sources I've read but cannot find right now. I assume that you didn't include this information because you know a lot about the topic and thought it was all common knowledge, but I'm not sure that it is.
- Steko 11y ago
  So I downvoted the comment mostly because it was dismissive of the entire article seemingly for the terrible crime of ... not going out of it's way to mythbust the 'Katanas Are Just Better' trope? I think the article as a whole was interesting and even if you concede parent's point on forging (see below), the rest of the article had a lot of information. Also is the article even wrong? The forging does create a very sharp edge (your own citation and other ARMA articles like Katana vs Longsword [1] go into this) and yes a very hard core. Yes the primary point is to remove impurities but why does the article become worthless for glossing over this, a point which is likely not interesting to casual reader looking for basic info and pictures of new weapons? [1] http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    It was perpetuating the trope actually. Not not mythbusting it. Forging does not create a sharp edge. The micro structure that gives sharp edge is created during the heat treatment.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - Steko 11y ago
      This seems excessively nit picky. Is the 'heat treatment' technically part of the forging? Technically no but for the layman's idea of forging it probably is ok to say yes. Did that one line in the article perpetuate the trope? In the sense that it means 'merely wielding a katana makes one a superhuman fighter' I would say 'clearly no' but in the sense of 'katana is the coolest sword' perhaps. Did katanas have world renowned sharpness? I would say yes. World renowned 'strongness' (which can have a lot more meanings)? Notsomuch.
      - venomsnake 11y ago
        The katana making techniques (pattern welding, differential HT) were not unique. So is the performance. Claiming otherwise is perpetuating the myth. The Japanese sword got its "world renown sharpness" the same way magnum .44 become the "world's most powerful handgun" after Dirty Harry. Also swords are not very sharp even with highly polished edge. Too high angle. If you want to see something really sharp - take a walk to some of the better restaurants.
      - dragontamer 11y ago
        Damascus Steel is cooler... and probably sharper and stronger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel Its basically the Katana folds, except you can explicitly see the folds between multiple kinds of steel. Damascus Steel is also the stuff of legends, because it is literally a technique lost to history (although people claimed to have reverse engineered it). Furthermore, some evidence points that true Damascus Steel had carbon nanotubes and cementite nanowires strengthening the blade (possibly created through the unknown ancient forging process). Not bad for Steel made in the BC eras. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/science/28observ.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/science/28observ.html?_r=0

Kiro 11y ago

What's wrong?

venomsnake 11y ago
The techniques in the making are not unique, the performance too. There were a lot of fine swords made everywhere in the world using similar methods. Europe used them IIRC. And we have wootz (which is entirely different beast, but also very high performing steel).

JimmyM 11y ago

I think that people are downvoting you because they're not sure what you're getting at or have an issue with tone, as I think I know what you are referring to here: http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm#.Vchr7RNViko http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm#.Vchr7RNViko The Japanese blacksmiths' method of repeatedly heating and folding the steel was actually a way of countering the poor quality of the raw material they had, according to some other sources I've read but cannot find right now. I assume that you didn't include this information because you know a lot about the topic and thought it was all common knowledge, but I'm not sure that it is.

Steko 11y ago
So I downvoted the comment mostly because it was dismissive of the entire article seemingly for the terrible crime of ... not going out of it's way to mythbust the 'Katanas Are Just Better' trope? I think the article as a whole was interesting and even if you concede parent's point on forging (see below), the rest of the article had a lot of information. Also is the article even wrong? The forging does create a very sharp edge (your own citation and other ARMA articles like Katana vs Longsword [1] go into this) and yes a very hard core. Yes the primary point is to remove impurities but why does the article become worthless for glossing over this, a point which is likely not interesting to casual reader looking for basic info and pictures of new weapons? [1] http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html
- venomsnake 11y ago
  It was perpetuating the trope actually. Not not mythbusting it. Forging does not create a sharp edge. The micro structure that gives sharp edge is created during the heat treatment.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - Steko 11y ago
    This seems excessively nit picky. Is the 'heat treatment' technically part of the forging? Technically no but for the layman's idea of forging it probably is ok to say yes. Did that one line in the article perpetuate the trope? In the sense that it means 'merely wielding a katana makes one a superhuman fighter' I would say 'clearly no' but in the sense of 'katana is the coolest sword' perhaps. Did katanas have world renowned sharpness? I would say yes. World renowned 'strongness' (which can have a lot more meanings)? Notsomuch.
    - venomsnake 11y ago
      The katana making techniques (pattern welding, differential HT) were not unique. So is the performance. Claiming otherwise is perpetuating the myth. The Japanese sword got its "world renown sharpness" the same way magnum .44 become the "world's most powerful handgun" after Dirty Harry. Also swords are not very sharp even with highly polished edge. Too high angle. If you want to see something really sharp - take a walk to some of the better restaurants.
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      Damascus Steel is cooler... and probably sharper and stronger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel Its basically the Katana folds, except you can explicitly see the folds between multiple kinds of steel. Damascus Steel is also the stuff of legends, because it is literally a technique lost to history (although people claimed to have reverse engineered it). Furthermore, some evidence points that true Damascus Steel had carbon nanotubes and cementite nanowires strengthening the blade (possibly created through the unknown ancient forging process). Not bad for Steel made in the BC eras. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/science/28observ.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/science/28observ.html?_r=0