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Also, judging by the words "colleagues-to-be" they intended to work on their visa waver. This is illegal as well so even if they've got in they could have been

Also, judging by the words "colleagues-to-be" they intended to work on their visa waver. This is illegal as well so even if they've got in they could have been deported later and banned from the US. The whole write up can be summed as "What do you mean 'Ignorantia juris non excusat'?!"

serge2k 11y ago
Not allowing entry isn't an unreasonable thing to do. It's a failure of procedure that these things are able to happen so easily. If your systems and laws make it easy to unintentionally break the law you should fix that. The problem is also the way the US does these things. The amount of hostility and the way they treat people.
- pandaman 11y ago
  Can you give an example of a country where the laws are hard to break unintentionally or otherwise? I know only one, Somalia, because there are no laws. So I don't think I'd like you "fixing" this. As for this case I am pretty sure their intent was to break the law, they just did not expect the consequences. They did try to get J-1 so they knew they need a visa for their visit and a waiver is not enough. They went without a visa anyways, probably hoping to talk their way through the immigration, feigning ignorance.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >Can you give an example of a country where the laws are hard to break unintentionally or otherwise? Any country without a jumbled mess of a legal system? www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842
  - tajen 11y ago
    Australia: laws are hard to break because their IT is efficient. And they're awesome characters. I reckon you have a point: So many people come to US with the intent of lying to the border agent, getting a tourist visa and working. Border law isn't shoplifting or traffic law.
    - pandaman 11y ago
      So, if, for example, I drive drunk in Australia (easy to do) I am not breaking any laws? Or don't pay taxes? I find this hard to believe. No matter how efficient the IT some laws are easy to break. You probably meant just the immigration laws, which was not what I asked.
coldtea 11y ago
>The whole write up can be summed as "What do you mean 'Ignorantia juris non excusat'?!" Well, ignorantia SHOULD be "excusat" in some cases. That idea of "Ignorantia juris non excusat" ("you're not excused for not knowing the law") is one of the worst and most undefensable aspects of the legal system, especially since modern law has become so vague and all-catching. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527487044715045744389... It should be checked on a case by case basis, and actual ignorantia should be taken into account and count as a reason for a lesser penalty.

serge2k 11y ago

Not allowing entry isn't an unreasonable thing to do. It's a failure of procedure that these things are able to happen so easily. If your systems and laws make it easy to unintentionally break the law you should fix that. The problem is also the way the US does these things. The amount of hostility and the way they treat people.

pandaman 11y ago
Can you give an example of a country where the laws are hard to break unintentionally or otherwise? I know only one, Somalia, because there are no laws. So I don't think I'd like you "fixing" this. As for this case I am pretty sure their intent was to break the law, they just did not expect the consequences. They did try to get J-1 so they knew they need a visa for their visit and a waiver is not enough. They went without a visa anyways, probably hoping to talk their way through the immigration, feigning ignorance.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Can you give an example of a country where the laws are hard to break unintentionally or otherwise? Any country without a jumbled mess of a legal system? www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842
- tajen 11y ago
  Australia: laws are hard to break because their IT is efficient. And they're awesome characters. I reckon you have a point: So many people come to US with the intent of lying to the border agent, getting a tourist visa and working. Border law isn't shoplifting or traffic law.
  - pandaman 11y ago
    So, if, for example, I drive drunk in Australia (easy to do) I am not breaking any laws? Or don't pay taxes? I find this hard to believe. No matter how efficient the IT some laws are easy to break. You probably meant just the immigration laws, which was not what I asked.

coldtea 11y ago

>The whole write up can be summed as "What do you mean 'Ignorantia juris non excusat'?!" Well, ignorantia SHOULD be "excusat" in some cases. That idea of "Ignorantia juris non excusat" ("you're not excused for not knowing the law") is one of the worst and most undefensable aspects of the legal system, especially since modern law has become so vague and all-catching. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527487044715045744389... It should be checked on a case by case basis, and actual ignorantia should be taken into account and count as a reason for a lesser penalty.