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> 99% of obese people are obese by choice. Are you willing to make the same claim about other addicts, smokers, alcoholics, drug users, sex addicts, and so on

> 99% of obese people are obese by choice. Are you willing to make the same claim about other addicts, smokers, alcoholics, drug users, sex addicts, and so on and so forth? In all cases when you perform a behaviour your brain releases chemicals which make a person feel better, these chemicals which should be associated with behaviours which improve survival prospects can become addictive (in particular in a world where we have unnaturally high access to things which were scarce during our evolution, like rich foods). Now in the cases of illegal drugs this is the intended effect, and without argument they're some of the most addictive substances we know of. But it is utterly absurd to simply dismiss the mental health aspect (addiction, depression, etc) of obesity and call it a straightforward choice. It might be a choice to you and I, but by definition we aren't addicts. Just like with alcohol or sex, we can do it without the need or drive to OVER do it, addicts cannot... I do find in recent years and completely against all evidence, bigotry has come out strongly against people struggling with food addiction. I legitimately feel like it is nothing more than attacking the mentally ill, nothing more.

linky123 11y ago
You are correct in noting that obese people are "mentally ill." They are not "diet resistant" nor do they have "slow metabolisms", PCOS, or thyroid problems.
- UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
  > You are correct in noting that obese people are "mentally ill." Thanks for saying, but that's a little in opposition to what you said earlier (that it is a "choice"). By definition the mentally ill don't choose to be that way (and by extension neither do the obese). I feel like we've tried and tried to address obesity with diets, but that's like trying to stop a sinking boat by bailing out water. Bailing water might keep you afloat for longer, but it doesn't plug up the leak that got you there to begin with. Obesity is the same. Diets might keep them "afloat" for longer, but without dealing with the underlying addiction that caused the problem to begin with, you're only delaying the problem not solving it. Which isn't to say there are easy answers, but some studies have used a combination of counseling, antidepressants, and monitoring to achieve compelling results[0]. It isn't a magic bullet however. PS - You can either come at addicts with hate/disdain or sympathy/compassion, I choose to do the latter. "There but for the grace of God go I" [0] https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/press-releases/2011/nih-studies-find-long-term-weight-loss-methods-for-clinical-practice https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/press-releases/2011/nih-studi...
- meursault334 11y ago
  Massively obese people have "slow metabolisms" after losing large amounts of weight. This change in their metabolism is independent of changes in lean mass or body composition[0]. This makes reaching a normal weight much much harder for them than for people who are a normal weight to stay at a normal weight. Do you really think that 1/3 of the population is "weak-willed" or has other moral failings that means that their problem is not worthy of spending public money on? Solving the obesity epidemic is much harder than people simply becoming "better" or "choosing" to stop being obese. If this were the case less than 5% of the population would be obese. [0]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3387402/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3387402/
  - strggd 11y ago
    >Do you really think that 1/3 of the population is "weak-willed" _American_ population -- also extendable to Britain, Scottland, Germany. Not the world. If you really think it's an epidemic, then it's a selectively first world epidemic. Like the 10 plagues. And just as ridiculous. Calling this a "disease" or "addiction" is moronic. You want to not be fat? It's not a fucking secret how to not be fat. http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.short http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.short
    - iN7h33nD 11y ago
      Next time you do something you enjoy. I want you to not do it. Yeah you heard me, don't do it. Then continue to not do it for six months. After that time continue to never do it again. That's right never, even if the corporations market it right into your waiting arms or someone hands it to you with no effort on your part. I want you to never do it again, oh and by the way we will all hate you for it and nobody will help you get through this. Now your probably thinking "Fuck this guy". Guess what, your addicted to whatever that was. An addiction is an addiction no matter how much your religiously deny it. To call it a disease is debatable, but unimportant. Finally, anything that Quacks like a duck and looks like a duck is a duck right? Well then if lots of people die from a thing, and it is easily linkable to obesity, than clearly treating it like a plague is justified.
strggd 11y ago
>Are you willing to make the same claim about other addicts, smokers, alcoholics, drug users, sex addicts, and so on and so forth? As an addict, yes. Every time you indulge it is a choice... Just like every single one of the 100 OCD times I check if my door is locked at night is a choice... If someone walked up to me and said "I'll give you 20$ to not drink today" I'd not drink that day, it would be annoying and I probably wouldn't be able to fall asleep for a long time, but I would do it. And if you want to claim that "doesn't make you an addict" well then, I guess I don't know what you call it when you drink at least a 6pack or a bottle of wine a day for 10 years is. >Now in the cases of illegal drugs this is the intended effect, and without argument they're some of the most addictive substances we know of. Nice blanket statement. I'd love to see someone get addicted to Mescaline or LSD; I'm fairly positive it's impossible. Not because of a physiological argument, it would just be downright mentally excruciating, just 3 days in a row and I toss the towel. And it's just obviously not the intended effect for lots, like rohypnol, ketamine, dxm. And go ahead and strike that "illegal" bit out. If you think your doctor writing a little rx for it makes it not addictive (in many cases intentionally addictive), you're wrong. And what makes coffee different from coca? What about the neuroeffects of cocoa? You're entire life is drugs, drawing some silly line in the sand with "illegal" is just juvenile. People who have no idea what they're talking about love to chime in on subjects like this. "Oh it's their choice" or "Oh it's impossible for them to make choices" or crap like that. It's a choice the same way studying maths for 10 hours before an exam is for most people -- yes, you can obviously do it, but most people give up after 15 minutes and just skim at their desk. No one runs around calling them mentally ill, when they are legitimately doing their entire life lasting harm by not becoming maths literate. And it's exactly the same chemical interaction, dopamine and serotonin pathways; you don't get that flowing with maths studying, but you do with video games or blasting bongs. Addiction is a stupid label that people and politicians use to demonize behaviors that they dislike. I think that we should solve obesity the same way we solve smokers and other "distastefuls": public shaming, banning from public spaces, specially marked 'fat zones,' etc.
- simplexion 11y ago
  "Fat zones" would be amazing! I think making the weight limit for flights much smaller would be a great idea. Or maybe a BMI + fat percentage limit.

linky123 11y ago

You are correct in noting that obese people are "mentally ill." They are not "diet resistant" nor do they have "slow metabolisms", PCOS, or thyroid problems.

UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
> You are correct in noting that obese people are "mentally ill." Thanks for saying, but that's a little in opposition to what you said earlier (that it is a "choice"). By definition the mentally ill don't choose to be that way (and by extension neither do the obese). I feel like we've tried and tried to address obesity with diets, but that's like trying to stop a sinking boat by bailing out water. Bailing water might keep you afloat for longer, but it doesn't plug up the leak that got you there to begin with. Obesity is the same. Diets might keep them "afloat" for longer, but without dealing with the underlying addiction that caused the problem to begin with, you're only delaying the problem not solving it. Which isn't to say there are easy answers, but some studies have used a combination of counseling, antidepressants, and monitoring to achieve compelling results[0]. It isn't a magic bullet however. PS - You can either come at addicts with hate/disdain or sympathy/compassion, I choose to do the latter. "There but for the grace of God go I" [0] https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/press-releases/2011/nih-studies-find-long-term-weight-loss-methods-for-clinical-practice https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/press-releases/2011/nih-studi...
meursault334 11y ago
Massively obese people have "slow metabolisms" after losing large amounts of weight. This change in their metabolism is independent of changes in lean mass or body composition[0]. This makes reaching a normal weight much much harder for them than for people who are a normal weight to stay at a normal weight. Do you really think that 1/3 of the population is "weak-willed" or has other moral failings that means that their problem is not worthy of spending public money on? Solving the obesity epidemic is much harder than people simply becoming "better" or "choosing" to stop being obese. If this were the case less than 5% of the population would be obese. [0]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3387402/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3387402/
- strggd 11y ago
  >Do you really think that 1/3 of the population is "weak-willed" _American_ population -- also extendable to Britain, Scottland, Germany. Not the world. If you really think it's an epidemic, then it's a selectively first world epidemic. Like the 10 plagues. And just as ridiculous. Calling this a "disease" or "addiction" is moronic. You want to not be fat? It's not a fucking secret how to not be fat. http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.short http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.short
  - iN7h33nD 11y ago
    Next time you do something you enjoy. I want you to not do it. Yeah you heard me, don't do it. Then continue to not do it for six months. After that time continue to never do it again. That's right never, even if the corporations market it right into your waiting arms or someone hands it to you with no effort on your part. I want you to never do it again, oh and by the way we will all hate you for it and nobody will help you get through this. Now your probably thinking "Fuck this guy". Guess what, your addicted to whatever that was. An addiction is an addiction no matter how much your religiously deny it. To call it a disease is debatable, but unimportant. Finally, anything that Quacks like a duck and looks like a duck is a duck right? Well then if lots of people die from a thing, and it is easily linkable to obesity, than clearly treating it like a plague is justified.

strggd 11y ago

>Are you willing to make the same claim about other addicts, smokers, alcoholics, drug users, sex addicts, and so on and so forth? As an addict, yes. Every time you indulge it is a choice... Just like every single one of the 100 OCD times I check if my door is locked at night is a choice... If someone walked up to me and said "I'll give you 20$ to not drink today" I'd not drink that day, it would be annoying and I probably wouldn't be able to fall asleep for a long time, but I would do it. And if you want to claim that "doesn't make you an addict" well then, I guess I don't know what you call it when you drink at least a 6pack or a bottle of wine a day for 10 years is. >Now in the cases of illegal drugs this is the intended effect, and without argument they're some of the most addictive substances we know of. Nice blanket statement. I'd love to see someone get addicted to Mescaline or LSD; I'm fairly positive it's impossible. Not because of a physiological argument, it would just be downright mentally excruciating, just 3 days in a row and I toss the towel. And it's just obviously not the intended effect for lots, like rohypnol, ketamine, dxm. And go ahead and strike that "illegal" bit out. If you think your doctor writing a little rx for it makes it not addictive (in many cases intentionally addictive), you're wrong. And what makes coffee different from coca? What about the neuroeffects of cocoa? You're entire life is drugs, drawing some silly line in the sand with "illegal" is just juvenile. People who have no idea what they're talking about love to chime in on subjects like this. "Oh it's their choice" or "Oh it's impossible for them to make choices" or crap like that. It's a choice the same way studying maths for 10 hours before an exam is for most people -- yes, you can obviously do it, but most people give up after 15 minutes and just skim at their desk. No one runs around calling them mentally ill, when they are legitimately doing their entire life lasting harm by not becoming maths literate. And it's exactly the same chemical interaction, dopamine and serotonin pathways; you don't get that flowing with maths studying, but you do with video games or blasting bongs. Addiction is a stupid label that people and politicians use to demonize behaviors that they dislike. I think that we should solve obesity the same way we solve smokers and other "distastefuls": public shaming, banning from public spaces, specially marked 'fat zones,' etc.

simplexion 11y ago
"Fat zones" would be amazing! I think making the weight limit for flights much smaller would be a great idea. Or maybe a BMI + fat percentage limit.