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How a troubled past turned a Soviet engineer into a valuable spy

30 points by curtis 11y ago

revelation 11y ago
Edward Lee Howard, a one-time CIA trainee So the CIAs incompetence got him killed.
- hga 11y ago
  More complete quote from the article: in late 1984 and early 1985, he was betrayed to the KGB. (CIA officials believe the informant was Edward Lee Howard, a one-time CIA trainee who had been fired after failing a series of polygraph tests. Howard, who defected to the Soviet Union after Tolkachev’s arrest, denied betraying the Soviet spy. Howard died in Moscow in 2002.) The Official Story per Wikipedia and consistant with the implication he was just a trainee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lee_Howard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lee_Howard): Howard was hired by the CIA in 1980 and was later joined by his wife, Mary, where they were both trained in intelligence and counter-intelligence methods. Shortly after the end of their training and before going on their first assignment, a routine polygraph test indicated that he had lied about past drug use, and he was fired by the CIA in 1983 shortly before he was to report to the CIA’s station at the American embassy in Moscow. It's hard to imagine how he'd get the right sort of info on such a critical spy.
  - perfTerm 11y ago
    If Legacy of Ashes, a history of the CIA, is any sort of indicator (and it is as a factual history of the CIA), the CIA has been (and probably still is) an absolutely inept institution with a tremendous amount of incompetance. I'm not quite this far but I'm getting there. I'm sure it will talk about this guy.
  - fxfxfx 11y ago
    That story is corroborated by KGB officers though, here (https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1314 https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1314, in Russian). Btw same documentary contains archive video of Tolkachev arrest https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1662 https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1662 and detaining of CIA operative who handled him https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1860 https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1860
hga 11y ago
"Troubled past" as in his wife's parents were senselessly murdered or sent to a camp when she was ~2, she grew up in an overflowing orphanage (the Great Terror killed an absolute minimum of 13-15 million and broke many more like her father; the same fate was shared by the people who ran the 1937 census when it told the truth), etc.
Asbostos 11y ago
Isn't it hypocritical to see the Soviet Union as bad for executing a spy when this guy's [1] been imprisoned by the US for nearly half his life for the same thing? If spying is good, it doesn't matter who's side you're on. It's still good. Unless there's some sort of neutral decider about which countries it's "noble" to spy on and which it's bad. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Pelton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Pelton
- joshuapants 11y ago
  There's a difference between someone dying of a 9mm cerebral hemorrhage in Lubyanka after being disappeared and someone getting a fair trial and sentence in a Western Democracy. > If spying is good, it doesn't matter who's side you're on I think you're being purposefully obtuse here.

30 points by curtis 11y ago

revelation 11y ago

Edward Lee Howard, a one-time CIA trainee So the CIAs incompetence got him killed.

hga 11y ago
More complete quote from the article: in late 1984 and early 1985, he was betrayed to the KGB. (CIA officials believe the informant was Edward Lee Howard, a one-time CIA trainee who had been fired after failing a series of polygraph tests. Howard, who defected to the Soviet Union after Tolkachev’s arrest, denied betraying the Soviet spy. Howard died in Moscow in 2002.) The Official Story per Wikipedia and consistant with the implication he was just a trainee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lee_Howard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lee_Howard): Howard was hired by the CIA in 1980 and was later joined by his wife, Mary, where they were both trained in intelligence and counter-intelligence methods. Shortly after the end of their training and before going on their first assignment, a routine polygraph test indicated that he had lied about past drug use, and he was fired by the CIA in 1983 shortly before he was to report to the CIA’s station at the American embassy in Moscow. It's hard to imagine how he'd get the right sort of info on such a critical spy.
- perfTerm 11y ago
  If Legacy of Ashes, a history of the CIA, is any sort of indicator (and it is as a factual history of the CIA), the CIA has been (and probably still is) an absolutely inept institution with a tremendous amount of incompetance. I'm not quite this far but I'm getting there. I'm sure it will talk about this guy.
- fxfxfx 11y ago
  That story is corroborated by KGB officers though, here (https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1314 https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1314, in Russian). Btw same documentary contains archive video of Tolkachev arrest https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1662 https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1662 and detaining of CIA operative who handled him https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1860 https://youtu.be/djs7UEJaueI?t=1860

hga 11y ago

"Troubled past" as in his wife's parents were senselessly murdered or sent to a camp when she was ~2, she grew up in an overflowing orphanage (the Great Terror killed an absolute minimum of 13-15 million and broke many more like her father; the same fate was shared by the people who ran the 1937 census when it told the truth), etc.

Asbostos 11y ago

Isn't it hypocritical to see the Soviet Union as bad for executing a spy when this guy's [1] been imprisoned by the US for nearly half his life for the same thing? If spying is good, it doesn't matter who's side you're on. It's still good. Unless there's some sort of neutral decider about which countries it's "noble" to spy on and which it's bad. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Pelton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Pelton

joshuapants 11y ago
There's a difference between someone dying of a 9mm cerebral hemorrhage in Lubyanka after being disappeared and someone getting a fair trial and sentence in a Western Democracy. > If spying is good, it doesn't matter who's side you're on I think you're being purposefully obtuse here.