4 ms·

Disappointing that they only featured white males in this article. Maybe that's part of the problem?

by jbarciauskas 11y ago

Canada 11y ago
Care to name anyone else who you feel should have been interviewed for this article?
- forwardslash 11y ago
  Roham Gharegozlou of Axiom Zen, perhaps.
- jbarciauskas 11y ago
  I'm not from Vancouver so not specifically, I just found the lack of diversity striking and was curious if it was reflective of the paper's lack of imagination or Vancouver's actual lack of diversity. Sounds like the former.
van_developer 11y ago
Vancouver is prob the most multi cultural city on earth and everywhere I've worked here is full of female executives, so American problems with ID politics don't manifest here. Just walk the streets for 10mins you will hear a dozen different languages. The problem is I get paid 2x the local salary to work for US startups remotely, and paid in USD a stronger currency. Everybody I know works remotely for Toronto, or US companies so I imagine power execs from around the world don't want to come here for the same low compensation and high income tax reasons that force us lowly devs to contract outside the province. I haven't seen much local hiring with options either, and if they do offer options they are tiny so why would I dedicate a huge chunk of my life to make somebody else's company rich while making half the salary of my clone in SV who has full options.
- jbarciauskas 11y ago
  It's great to hear that Vancouver is really diverse, it's just disappointing that it wasn't portrayed that way then.
  - curiousjorge 11y ago
    it is diverse but at the same time isolated into ethnic enclaves, people generally tend to stick with their own race group for the vast majority of vancouverites and it's very cliquey. There is a cultural difference in work ethics in Asia and the West. Like I repeatedly saw an overwhelming tendency for Asian engineers to overwork to appear more impressive while non-Asian engineers seemed to leave exactly on time. Overall, I think it's pathetic that there is this outdated working ethic still being played out amongst the Asian community but it's also why the salaries are suppressed, why overwhelming workforce of startups in Vancouver are Asians. The stereotypes is being self enforced by Asian engineers and it was pretty sad to see. One senior Asian engineer (probably making less than $70k/year) loved pointing out how early I was leaving (leaving at 5:00pm is too early apparently) and that I wasn't doing enough. He explained how in Asia he used to work on weekends and that this was the norm. It's pretty much a shit show but I saw this happen at other startups as well and pretty much put me off from ever working again in Vancouver. In fact I'm not surprised that lot of vancouverites here are working remotely for American clients. The work/life balance culture is horrid for the most part, far less pay and competitive landscape commoditizing each other. There are plenty of sweatshop employers in vancouver who fully exploit this fact. However, enough is enough, once you remove yourself from such toxic job market you start finding out just how much money there is to be made outside of Vancouver. I still get recruiters trying to pitch me on some job and they are becoming increasingly pushy and spammy. Not all of them are bad but it appears the problem in the article is very real, there are literally not many willing engineers who respect themselves to put up with low pay and crappy work/life balance. And so far the HN vancouverite users seems to be exactly doing that, working remotely for a market outside Vancouver or physically moving to American cities. I can also see new grads are looking for jobs outside of Vancouver, so the brain drain is no longer the case where somebody relocates but as Holmes illustrates in the article, it's becoming decentralized. If you quit your job in Vancouver, and you found a gig for American client, it would make financial sense especially because the cost of living does not match up to the average salary here. A city is more than just cost of living and housing prices. It is nothing without the people and community. there was a recent debate of how lacking Vancouver is in terms of community and that people were largely feeling isolated in Vancouver. I remember someone from Brazil accurately pointing out how difficult it was to make friends or even talk to people. On the surface they seem receptive and helpful to newcomers but how dare they attempt at some friendship or extend the conversation. This also spills into the night life scene in Vancouver which is pretty much dead on arrival, shuts down after 1 AM, lack of disposal income means a lot less happier people and more people spending time at home, smoking reefer and indulging in some activity with friends they probably knew since kids. If you saw the bar culture here it's pretty much everybody keeping to themselves at their own tables and not wanting to be bothered. Like even a friendly attempt is typically shot down quickly. It's almost like people are on guard and they think that you want something from them when all you are doing is just small chat and trying to meet new people. I'm willing to put up with Vancouver for a while longer until I figure out which city I want to work remotely from but it certainly will be even a faster acceleration of the trend where the brain drain starts with someone exiting the local job market and finding new ones south of the border. Thanks to remote jobs, this brain drain is far more quicker and eventually devastating to the future of Vancouver's tech scene, since not even it's own inhabitants are willing to work here, how could they convince SV engineer to work here? It's hypocrisy at best.

Disappointing that they only featured white males in this article. Maybe that's part of the problem?

Canada 11y ago

Care to name anyone else who you feel should have been interviewed for this article?

forwardslash 11y ago
Roham Gharegozlou of Axiom Zen, perhaps.
jbarciauskas 11y ago
I'm not from Vancouver so not specifically, I just found the lack of diversity striking and was curious if it was reflective of the paper's lack of imagination or Vancouver's actual lack of diversity. Sounds like the former.

van_developer 11y ago

Vancouver is prob the most multi cultural city on earth and everywhere I've worked here is full of female executives, so American problems with ID politics don't manifest here. Just walk the streets for 10mins you will hear a dozen different languages. The problem is I get paid 2x the local salary to work for US startups remotely, and paid in USD a stronger currency. Everybody I know works remotely for Toronto, or US companies so I imagine power execs from around the world don't want to come here for the same low compensation and high income tax reasons that force us lowly devs to contract outside the province. I haven't seen much local hiring with options either, and if they do offer options they are tiny so why would I dedicate a huge chunk of my life to make somebody else's company rich while making half the salary of my clone in SV who has full options.

jbarciauskas 11y ago
It's great to hear that Vancouver is really diverse, it's just disappointing that it wasn't portrayed that way then.
- curiousjorge 11y ago
  it is diverse but at the same time isolated into ethnic enclaves, people generally tend to stick with their own race group for the vast majority of vancouverites and it's very cliquey. There is a cultural difference in work ethics in Asia and the West. Like I repeatedly saw an overwhelming tendency for Asian engineers to overwork to appear more impressive while non-Asian engineers seemed to leave exactly on time. Overall, I think it's pathetic that there is this outdated working ethic still being played out amongst the Asian community but it's also why the salaries are suppressed, why overwhelming workforce of startups in Vancouver are Asians. The stereotypes is being self enforced by Asian engineers and it was pretty sad to see. One senior Asian engineer (probably making less than $70k/year) loved pointing out how early I was leaving (leaving at 5:00pm is too early apparently) and that I wasn't doing enough. He explained how in Asia he used to work on weekends and that this was the norm. It's pretty much a shit show but I saw this happen at other startups as well and pretty much put me off from ever working again in Vancouver. In fact I'm not surprised that lot of vancouverites here are working remotely for American clients. The work/life balance culture is horrid for the most part, far less pay and competitive landscape commoditizing each other. There are plenty of sweatshop employers in vancouver who fully exploit this fact. However, enough is enough, once you remove yourself from such toxic job market you start finding out just how much money there is to be made outside of Vancouver. I still get recruiters trying to pitch me on some job and they are becoming increasingly pushy and spammy. Not all of them are bad but it appears the problem in the article is very real, there are literally not many willing engineers who respect themselves to put up with low pay and crappy work/life balance. And so far the HN vancouverite users seems to be exactly doing that, working remotely for a market outside Vancouver or physically moving to American cities. I can also see new grads are looking for jobs outside of Vancouver, so the brain drain is no longer the case where somebody relocates but as Holmes illustrates in the article, it's becoming decentralized. If you quit your job in Vancouver, and you found a gig for American client, it would make financial sense especially because the cost of living does not match up to the average salary here. A city is more than just cost of living and housing prices. It is nothing without the people and community. there was a recent debate of how lacking Vancouver is in terms of community and that people were largely feeling isolated in Vancouver. I remember someone from Brazil accurately pointing out how difficult it was to make friends or even talk to people. On the surface they seem receptive and helpful to newcomers but how dare they attempt at some friendship or extend the conversation. This also spills into the night life scene in Vancouver which is pretty much dead on arrival, shuts down after 1 AM, lack of disposal income means a lot less happier people and more people spending time at home, smoking reefer and indulging in some activity with friends they probably knew since kids. If you saw the bar culture here it's pretty much everybody keeping to themselves at their own tables and not wanting to be bothered. Like even a friendly attempt is typically shot down quickly. It's almost like people are on guard and they think that you want something from them when all you are doing is just small chat and trying to meet new people. I'm willing to put up with Vancouver for a while longer until I figure out which city I want to work remotely from but it certainly will be even a faster acceleration of the trend where the brain drain starts with someone exiting the local job market and finding new ones south of the border. Thanks to remote jobs, this brain drain is far more quicker and eventually devastating to the future of Vancouver's tech scene, since not even it's own inhabitants are willing to work here, how could they convince SV engineer to work here? It's hypocrisy at best.