4 ms·

> I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. This is a ridiculous comment. I realise the social contract has broken down so

> I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. This is a ridiculous comment. I realise the social contract has broken down somewhat in recent years but if you can't see the difference between Mafia extortion and government taxation there's something wrong. Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government.

sillygeese 11y ago
> Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government. So what? Go ahead and tell me how and why that matters with regard to taxation itself. Again, if a mafia let you vote for the new mafia boss, would that make extortion alright? Would it be good to be bossed around by a mafia boss you voted for? Would getting elected make it alright for him to extort you? You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- summerdown2 11y ago
  How do you intend to have money without a central bank? Should we all swap gold bars? What if I have a different view of the value of gold/bitcoin? Also, I'll play along if that's what you want. > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it 1. I'm going to use your road and not pay. What are you going to do about it? 2. I don't believe you have rights to the land the road is on. How do you prove you have that right? 3. I'm going to build a circular road around a village, then charge $1 trillion for anyone to cross it. Should they starve to death rather then disobey me? 4. I've just shot your best friend in the street because I didn't like the colour of their hair? What are your options? Please feel free to explain how, in the absence of taxation or joint societal constructs like a government, you're in a good place here?
  - kuschku 11y ago
    He’s one of the anarcho-capitalist hardcore bitcoin defenders that hang out in #bitcoin-assets, too. Just ignore him, I wasted a week trying to talk to these kind of people, it’s of no use.
    - summerdown2 11y ago
      Aye. I just wish it were different. Incidentally, I've just come back from the Netherlands, where the rather excellent Rotterdam Museum of Customs had a series of quite nicely inquiring exhibits going into exactly why we pay tax and all the nice things it gives to the Netherlands. I wish my own society (the UK) felt more confident about putting forward a pro-taxation argument. Ultimately, it's a kind of social glue that's needed I think.
    - sillygeese 11y ago
      More like, they wasted a week on talking to you.
  - sillygeese 11y ago
    You didn't actually address any of my questions, so I'll just refrain from addressing yours.
    - summerdown2 11y ago
      Thought so. Also this shouldn't need pointing out, but I did answer at least one of your questions: > You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? ... with the response: > How do you intend to have money without a central bank? I guess I could generalise it to "plus law courts, legal system and police force," if you like. The real problem you have is that "someone taking your money" assumes you have money in the first place, and there's no such thing as money absent a framework that provides it. Otherwise it's just bits of green paper/coloured metal/bits on a computer. Or would you like to swap ten chickens for my sheep? No? I think I'll just shoot you and take the chickens anyway then.
- Riseed 11y ago
  > What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years? The difference is that having choice of candidates can easily distract those voting from the larger picture. http://sadmoment.com/sheep-on-voting-for-a-lion-or-a-wolf-on-election-day/ http://sadmoment.com/sheep-on-voting-for-a-lion-or-a-wolf-on...

sillygeese 11y ago

> Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government. So what? Go ahead and tell me how and why that matters with regard to taxation itself. Again, if a mafia let you vote for the new mafia boss, would that make extortion alright? Would it be good to be bossed around by a mafia boss you voted for? Would getting elected make it alright for him to extort you? You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
summerdown2 11y ago
How do you intend to have money without a central bank? Should we all swap gold bars? What if I have a different view of the value of gold/bitcoin? Also, I'll play along if that's what you want. > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it 1. I'm going to use your road and not pay. What are you going to do about it? 2. I don't believe you have rights to the land the road is on. How do you prove you have that right? 3. I'm going to build a circular road around a village, then charge $1 trillion for anyone to cross it. Should they starve to death rather then disobey me? 4. I've just shot your best friend in the street because I didn't like the colour of their hair? What are your options? Please feel free to explain how, in the absence of taxation or joint societal constructs like a government, you're in a good place here?
- kuschku 11y ago
  He’s one of the anarcho-capitalist hardcore bitcoin defenders that hang out in #bitcoin-assets, too. Just ignore him, I wasted a week trying to talk to these kind of people, it’s of no use.
  - summerdown2 11y ago
    Aye. I just wish it were different. Incidentally, I've just come back from the Netherlands, where the rather excellent Rotterdam Museum of Customs had a series of quite nicely inquiring exhibits going into exactly why we pay tax and all the nice things it gives to the Netherlands. I wish my own society (the UK) felt more confident about putting forward a pro-taxation argument. Ultimately, it's a kind of social glue that's needed I think.
  - sillygeese 11y ago
    More like, they wasted a week on talking to you.
- sillygeese 11y ago
  You didn't actually address any of my questions, so I'll just refrain from addressing yours.
  - summerdown2 11y ago
    Thought so. Also this shouldn't need pointing out, but I did answer at least one of your questions: > You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? ... with the response: > How do you intend to have money without a central bank? I guess I could generalise it to "plus law courts, legal system and police force," if you like. The real problem you have is that "someone taking your money" assumes you have money in the first place, and there's no such thing as money absent a framework that provides it. Otherwise it's just bits of green paper/coloured metal/bits on a computer. Or would you like to swap ten chickens for my sheep? No? I think I'll just shoot you and take the chickens anyway then.
Riseed 11y ago
> What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years? The difference is that having choice of candidates can easily distract those voting from the larger picture. http://sadmoment.com/sheep-on-voting-for-a-lion-or-a-wolf-on-election-day/ http://sadmoment.com/sheep-on-voting-for-a-lion-or-a-wolf-on...