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> Do Apple employees not drive cars on roads (paid for by the taxpayer)? If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? > Of course Apple avoi

> Do Apple employees not drive cars on roads (paid for by the taxpayer)? If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? > Of course Apple avoid taxes - anyone who can do so without fear of getting significantly punished does Exactly. Think about that for a while there. You're basically saying that no one would pay taxes without being forced to. Would anyone pay a mafia protection money without being forced to? That's how extortion works you know. There you go. Governments force us to pay taxes, exactly because otherwise we wouldn't pay them, which shows how irrelevant all the services provided with extorted money are.

krisgenre 11y ago
Are you saying the government is extorting in the name of taxes? Taxes are important because some things ( like laying roads ) cannot be selectively implemented. You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it.
- sillygeese 11y ago
  I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. You're trying to justify extortion with things that are built with extorted money, but could be built without extorting people too. > You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it, much like you can build an iPhone and ask people to pay for one if they want it.
  - summerdown2 11y ago
    > I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. This is a ridiculous comment. I realise the social contract has broken down somewhat in recent years but if you can't see the difference between Mafia extortion and government taxation there's something wrong. Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government.
    - sillygeese 11y ago
      > Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government. So what? Go ahead and tell me how and why that matters with regard to taxation itself. Again, if a mafia let you vote for the new mafia boss, would that make extortion alright? Would it be good to be bossed around by a mafia boss you voted for? Would getting elected make it alright for him to extort you? You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years?
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - summerdown2 11y ago
        How do you intend to have money without a central bank? Should we all swap gold bars? What if I have a different view of the value of gold/bitcoin? Also, I'll play along if that's what you want. > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it 1. I'm going to use your road and not pay. What are you going to do about it? 2. I don't believe you have rights to the land the road is on. How do you prove you have that right? 3. I'm going to build a circular road around a village, then charge $1 trillion for anyone to cross it. Should they starve to death rather then disobey me? 4. I've just shot your best friend in the street because I didn't like the colour of their hair? What are your options? Please feel free to explain how, in the absence of taxation or joint societal constructs like a government, you're in a good place here?
        kuschku 11y ago
        He’s one of the anarcho-capitalist hardcore bitcoin defenders that hang out in #bitcoin-assets, too. Just ignore him, I wasted a week trying to talk to these kind of people, it’s of no use.
        summerdown2 11y ago
        Aye. I just wish it were different. Incidentally, I've just come back from the Netherlands, where the rather excellent Rotterdam Museum of Customs had a series of quite nicely inquiring exhibits going into exactly why we pay tax and all the nice things it gives to the Netherlands. I wish my own society (the UK) felt more confident about putting forward a pro-taxation argument. Ultimately, it's a kind of social glue that's needed I think.
  - Ntrails 11y ago
    And the police? Fire departments? Social security? Town planning/maintenance/social policy/etc etc etc. Essentially the only system without tax is anarchy, and if you are bona fide advocating that - well I wish you the best of luck in your brave new world.
    - sillygeese 11y ago
      > And the police? Fire departments? Social security? I know, it's like.. how could supermarkets sell you ice-cream without 330 million people getting extorted?! It's ridiculous!
      - itistoday2 11y ago
        Hey sillygeese, whoever you are, just wanted you to know that I upvoted your comments. Keep up the good fight! Your position is a totally legitimate one. Anyone who objects to how the government uses their money is totally in their right to refuse to pay taxes. Given today's technology, governments have no excuses left.
        sillygeese 11y ago
        Thanks. Check this out too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98
        itistoday2 11y ago
        Thanks! Utterly crazy stuff. I really pity this downvoters. Sad fools who pay folks to kick them in the nuts and then downvote anyone who points out their self-harming behavior.
  - Riseed 11y ago
    > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it, much like you can build an iPhone and ask people to pay for one if they want it. Or much like toll existing roads/bridges [e.g. Golden Gate Bridge, Pennsylvania Turnpike, M6 Toll, German Autobahn (as of 2016)].
- Riseed 11y ago
  > You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. I believe that's precisely how tolls work.
shultays 11y ago
If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? Yes

krisgenre 11y ago

Are you saying the government is extorting in the name of taxes? Taxes are important because some things ( like laying roads ) cannot be selectively implemented. You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it.

sillygeese 11y ago
I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. You're trying to justify extortion with things that are built with extorted money, but could be built without extorting people too. > You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it, much like you can build an iPhone and ask people to pay for one if they want it.
- summerdown2 11y ago
  > I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. This is a ridiculous comment. I realise the social contract has broken down somewhat in recent years but if you can't see the difference between Mafia extortion and government taxation there's something wrong. Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government.
  - sillygeese 11y ago
    > Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government. So what? Go ahead and tell me how and why that matters with regard to taxation itself. Again, if a mafia let you vote for the new mafia boss, would that make extortion alright? Would it be good to be bossed around by a mafia boss you voted for? Would getting elected make it alright for him to extort you? You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - summerdown2 11y ago
      How do you intend to have money without a central bank? Should we all swap gold bars? What if I have a different view of the value of gold/bitcoin? Also, I'll play along if that's what you want. > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it 1. I'm going to use your road and not pay. What are you going to do about it? 2. I don't believe you have rights to the land the road is on. How do you prove you have that right? 3. I'm going to build a circular road around a village, then charge $1 trillion for anyone to cross it. Should they starve to death rather then disobey me? 4. I've just shot your best friend in the street because I didn't like the colour of their hair? What are your options? Please feel free to explain how, in the absence of taxation or joint societal constructs like a government, you're in a good place here?
      - kuschku 11y ago
        He’s one of the anarcho-capitalist hardcore bitcoin defenders that hang out in #bitcoin-assets, too. Just ignore him, I wasted a week trying to talk to these kind of people, it’s of no use.
        summerdown2 11y ago
        Aye. I just wish it were different. Incidentally, I've just come back from the Netherlands, where the rather excellent Rotterdam Museum of Customs had a series of quite nicely inquiring exhibits going into exactly why we pay tax and all the nice things it gives to the Netherlands. I wish my own society (the UK) felt more confident about putting forward a pro-taxation argument. Ultimately, it's a kind of social glue that's needed I think.
- Ntrails 11y ago
  And the police? Fire departments? Social security? Town planning/maintenance/social policy/etc etc etc. Essentially the only system without tax is anarchy, and if you are bona fide advocating that - well I wish you the best of luck in your brave new world.
  - sillygeese 11y ago
    > And the police? Fire departments? Social security? I know, it's like.. how could supermarkets sell you ice-cream without 330 million people getting extorted?! It's ridiculous!
    - itistoday2 11y ago
      Hey sillygeese, whoever you are, just wanted you to know that I upvoted your comments. Keep up the good fight! Your position is a totally legitimate one. Anyone who objects to how the government uses their money is totally in their right to refuse to pay taxes. Given today's technology, governments have no excuses left.
      - sillygeese 11y ago
        Thanks. Check this out too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98
        itistoday2 11y ago
        Thanks! Utterly crazy stuff. I really pity this downvoters. Sad fools who pay folks to kick them in the nuts and then downvote anyone who points out their self-harming behavior.
- Riseed 11y ago
  > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it, much like you can build an iPhone and ask people to pay for one if they want it. Or much like toll existing roads/bridges [e.g. Golden Gate Bridge, Pennsylvania Turnpike, M6 Toll, German Autobahn (as of 2016)].
Riseed 11y ago
> You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. I believe that's precisely how tolls work.

shultays 11y ago

If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? Yes