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I have family in Germany who get their internet through Deutsche Telekom. When visiting I've found its faster to watch YouTube via a VPN through Switzerland tha

by harryf 11y ago

I have family in Germany who get their internet through Deutsche Telekom. When visiting I've found its faster to watch YouTube via a VPN through Switzerland than directly through Deutsche Telekom. While this doesn't prove anything it sure does feel like they already violate net neutrality when it comes to YouTube

_xzu 11y ago
More probably this is routing issue. Connection between Deutsche Telekom and Youtube servers is more busy than connections between DT -> Swiss server -> Youtube.
- kuschku 11y ago
  DTAG (Deutsche Telekom AG) essentially does the exact same with YouTube that Verizon did with Netflix: They refuse to peer with them at all. ALL traffic from DTAG users first runs to a Level3 datacenter in New York, and from there goes to other users. While all other German ISPs have a peering node at DECIX
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    To add, when you're asking DTAG to peer, they determine the location where they set up the peering point with you. That's typically somewhere out of nowhere, so you also have to rent the pipe that brings your data there - from them, obviously.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Additionally, they overcharge a lot for the last mile infrastructure for other ISPs, so in my region some other ISPs started building their own last mile infrastructure and peering with Telia to get access to TAT-14 (and thereby allowing them to peer better with US providers). (TAT-14 is a transatlantic cable owned by DTAG and Telia)
  - 4impdag 11y ago
    Do you have a source for this assertion?
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Take https://netzpolitik.org/2015/telekom-am-internetknoten-de-cix-es-gibt-keine-aenderung-der-peering-policy-man-fuehrt-die-netzgemeinde-vor/ https://netzpolitik.org/2015/telekom-am-internetknoten-de-ci... for example. It’s common knowledge in the industry by now that the DTAG uses their 40 million users as leverage to force companies to directly peer with them (and pay for peering).
pgeorgi 11y ago
DTAG benefits from inertia, being the offspring of the public post/telecom monopoly they started with a 100% customer base. As for the issue at hand (YT being slow), like a sibling post states, that's because they refuse to peer at DECIX where everybody else is. They even tried to frame the NSA scandals as "IT companies, be responsible, keep user data in German networks and peer with us directly (on our terms, which will be expensive for you - they 'forgot' to mention that in the press releases)". The best way to make DTAG more customer friendly (both upstream and downstream) is to move somewhere else. Luckily in cities you have 5+ ISPs to choose from (some of them DTAG resellers, but still an improvement), and even on the country side it's typically at least 3.

by harryf 11y ago

_xzu 11y ago

More probably this is routing issue. Connection between Deutsche Telekom and Youtube servers is more busy than connections between DT -> Swiss server -> Youtube.

kuschku 11y ago
DTAG (Deutsche Telekom AG) essentially does the exact same with YouTube that Verizon did with Netflix: They refuse to peer with them at all. ALL traffic from DTAG users first runs to a Level3 datacenter in New York, and from there goes to other users. While all other German ISPs have a peering node at DECIX
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  To add, when you're asking DTAG to peer, they determine the location where they set up the peering point with you. That's typically somewhere out of nowhere, so you also have to rent the pipe that brings your data there - from them, obviously.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Additionally, they overcharge a lot for the last mile infrastructure for other ISPs, so in my region some other ISPs started building their own last mile infrastructure and peering with Telia to get access to TAT-14 (and thereby allowing them to peer better with US providers). (TAT-14 is a transatlantic cable owned by DTAG and Telia)
- 4impdag 11y ago
  Do you have a source for this assertion?
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Take https://netzpolitik.org/2015/telekom-am-internetknoten-de-cix-es-gibt-keine-aenderung-der-peering-policy-man-fuehrt-die-netzgemeinde-vor/ https://netzpolitik.org/2015/telekom-am-internetknoten-de-ci... for example. It’s common knowledge in the industry by now that the DTAG uses their 40 million users as leverage to force companies to directly peer with them (and pay for peering).

pgeorgi 11y ago

DTAG benefits from inertia, being the offspring of the public post/telecom monopoly they started with a 100% customer base. As for the issue at hand (YT being slow), like a sibling post states, that's because they refuse to peer at DECIX where everybody else is. They even tried to frame the NSA scandals as "IT companies, be responsible, keep user data in German networks and peer with us directly (on our terms, which will be expensive for you - they 'forgot' to mention that in the press releases)". The best way to make DTAG more customer friendly (both upstream and downstream) is to move somewhere else. Luckily in cities you have 5+ ISPs to choose from (some of them DTAG resellers, but still an improvement), and even on the country side it's typically at least 3.