5 ms·

Do Apple employees not drive cars on roads (paid for by the taxpayer)? Do they rely on no technology whatsoever which did not rely on the taxpayer to exist (for

by tragic 11y ago

Do Apple employees not drive cars on roads (paid for by the taxpayer)? Do they rely on no technology whatsoever which did not rely on the taxpayer to exist (for example, er, the internet)? If they want to defend some other part of their property under the law, are they paying their own judges? Of course Apple avoid taxes - anyone who can do so without fear of getting significantly punished does. But the idea that this is a brave stand against The Man is transparently ridiculous - especially so for any technologist, given our industry's heavy historic reliance on both the academy and the military. Should you pay the mafia for 'protection'? No. Should you pay the security guard for actually protecting you? Yes.

sillygeese 11y ago
> Do Apple employees not drive cars on roads (paid for by the taxpayer)? If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? > Of course Apple avoid taxes - anyone who can do so without fear of getting significantly punished does Exactly. Think about that for a while there. You're basically saying that no one would pay taxes without being forced to. Would anyone pay a mafia protection money without being forced to? That's how extortion works you know. There you go. Governments force us to pay taxes, exactly because otherwise we wouldn't pay them, which shows how irrelevant all the services provided with extorted money are.
- krisgenre 11y ago
  Are you saying the government is extorting in the name of taxes? Taxes are important because some things ( like laying roads ) cannot be selectively implemented. You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it.
  - sillygeese 11y ago
    I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. You're trying to justify extortion with things that are built with extorted money, but could be built without extorting people too. > You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it, much like you can build an iPhone and ask people to pay for one if they want it.
    - summerdown2 11y ago
      > I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. This is a ridiculous comment. I realise the social contract has broken down somewhat in recent years but if you can't see the difference between Mafia extortion and government taxation there's something wrong. Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government.
      - sillygeese 11y ago
        > Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government. So what? Go ahead and tell me how and why that matters with regard to taxation itself. Again, if a mafia let you vote for the new mafia boss, would that make extortion alright? Would it be good to be bossed around by a mafia boss you voted for? Would getting elected make it alright for him to extort you? You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years?
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        summerdown2 11y ago
        How do you intend to have money without a central bank? Should we all swap gold bars? What if I have a different view of the value of gold/bitcoin? Also, I'll play along if that's what you want. > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it 1. I'm going to use your road and not pay. What are you going to do about it? 2. I don't believe you have rights to the land the road is on. How do you prove you have that right? 3. I'm going to build a circular road around a village, then charge $1 trillion for anyone to cross it. Should they starve to death rather then disobey me? 4. I've just shot your best friend in the street because I didn't like the colour of their hair? What are your options? Please feel free to explain how, in the absence of taxation or joint societal constructs like a government, you're in a good place here?
        11y ago
  - Riseed 11y ago
    > You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. I believe that's precisely how tolls work.
- shultays 11y ago
  If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? Yes

by tragic 11y ago

sillygeese 11y ago

> Do Apple employees not drive cars on roads (paid for by the taxpayer)? If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? > Of course Apple avoid taxes - anyone who can do so without fear of getting significantly punished does Exactly. Think about that for a while there. You're basically saying that no one would pay taxes without being forced to. Would anyone pay a mafia protection money without being forced to? That's how extortion works you know. There you go. Governments force us to pay taxes, exactly because otherwise we wouldn't pay them, which shows how irrelevant all the services provided with extorted money are.

krisgenre 11y ago
Are you saying the government is extorting in the name of taxes? Taxes are important because some things ( like laying roads ) cannot be selectively implemented. You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it.
- sillygeese 11y ago
  I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. You're trying to justify extortion with things that are built with extorted money, but could be built without extorting people too. > You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it, much like you can build an iPhone and ask people to pay for one if they want it.
  - summerdown2 11y ago
    > I'm saying taxation is extortion, and just as immoral as when a mafia does it. This is a ridiculous comment. I realise the social contract has broken down somewhat in recent years but if you can't see the difference between Mafia extortion and government taxation there's something wrong. Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government.
    - sillygeese 11y ago
      > Here's just one difference: we can vote for the government. So what? Go ahead and tell me how and why that matters with regard to taxation itself. Again, if a mafia let you vote for the new mafia boss, would that make extortion alright? Would it be good to be bossed around by a mafia boss you voted for? Would getting elected make it alright for him to extort you? You do realize they're still taking your money by force, don't you? What difference does it make that you drop a piece of paper into a box once every few years?
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - summerdown2 11y ago
        How do you intend to have money without a central bank? Should we all swap gold bars? What if I have a different view of the value of gold/bitcoin? Also, I'll play along if that's what you want. > You could just build a road and then ask people to pay for using it 1. I'm going to use your road and not pay. What are you going to do about it? 2. I don't believe you have rights to the land the road is on. How do you prove you have that right? 3. I'm going to build a circular road around a village, then charge $1 trillion for anyone to cross it. Should they starve to death rather then disobey me? 4. I've just shot your best friend in the street because I didn't like the colour of their hair? What are your options? Please feel free to explain how, in the absence of taxation or joint societal constructs like a government, you're in a good place here?
        11y ago
- Riseed 11y ago
  > You can't just ask some to pay for the road and the rest not to use it. I believe that's precisely how tolls work.
shultays 11y ago
If a mafia built roads, would that make its extortion alright? Yes