3 ms·

> We are wired to be afraid of snakes and snaky things Are we really wired for it, though? I've personally never had that fear. Perhaps it's a little more nur

by eric_h 11y ago

> We are wired to be afraid of snakes and snaky things Are we really wired for it, though? I've personally never had that fear. Perhaps it's a little more nurture than nature? </anecdata>

jonchang 11y ago
"Experiment 1 results indicated that observer rhesus monkeys acquired a fear of snakes through watching videotapes of model monkeys behaving fearfully with snakes. In Experiment 2, observers watched edited videotapes that showed models reacting either fearfully to toy snakes and nonfearfully to artificial flowers (SN+/FL-) or vice versa (FL+/SN-). SN+/FL- observers acquired a fear of snakes but not of flowers; FL+/SN- observers did not acquire a fear of either stimulus. In Experiment 3, monkeys solved complex appetitive discriminative (PAN) problems at comparable rates regardless of whether the discriminative stimuli were the videotaped snake or the flower stimuli used in Experiment 2. Thus, monkeys appear to selectively associate snakes with fear." Experiment 1 shows that monkeys become afraid of snakes through watching videos of other monkeys being afraid of snakes. Experiment 2 shows that monkeys don't acquire a fear of flowers if shown a video of other monkeys being afraid of flowers. Experiment 3 shows that monkeys can still be conditioned in other tasks using videos of either flowers or snakes. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230660 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230660
- nothis 11y ago
  So, is it obvious that monkeys aren't afraid of snakes if they never see other monkeys act afraid before? Because that's what I'd test first. Further, if there's a learned fear of snakes, that might not be coincidence, even if it's not genetic.
  - trevyn 11y ago
    Yep. From the actual paper referenced above: "Although considerable controversy has existed over the extent to which this fear of snakes is “innate” as opposed to based on learning, current evidence suggests that learning is necessary for the fear to manifest itself, at least for some primate species in which wild-reared but not laboratory-reared monkeys show a fear of snakes (see Mineka & Cook, 1988, for a review). For example, Mineka and Cook demonstrated that laboratory-reared rhesus monkeys who were initially unafraid of snakes rapidly acquired a fear of snakes after watching wild-reared model monkeys exhibit a strong fear of snakes (Cook, Mineka, Wolkenstein, & Laitsch, 1985; Mineka, Davidson, Cook, & Keir, 1984). The naive laboratory reared observers initially reached rapidly for food placed adjacent to a series of stimuli, including a real snake, toy snakes, and neutral objects."
    - tlarkworthy 11y ago
      My dog has instinctively done many high level things, peeing on tall things, sexing anything, responding to scolding despite I have never been violent to him, shaking water off with a weird reflex, pooing away from his home etc. It's like those behaviours are already preprogrammed. Being scared of certain classes of animals is no more.complex, I think humans probably have tons of preprogrammed behaviours we later add a narrative to. Perhaps belief in unseen agents is one of them.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
tim333 11y ago
While its not very hacker news to post funny cat videos there's one here of one reacting in what looks like an anti snake way to a cucumber. I doubt the reaction was a learnt fear of cucumbers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ov_ptXsE8&feature=youtu.be&t=5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ov_ptXsE8&feature=youtu.be...
steveax 11y ago
More anecdata... I was never afraid of snakes as a child (much to the dismay of my mother) nor am I now, but the times I've heard the rattle of a rattlesnake caused me to react in a way that was undeniably involuntary. Seemed pretty primal.
aggie 11y ago
'Wired for it' is a problematic term to use, as it is often interpreted to mean the outcome is deterministic. Humans are wired for noticing snakes. There are neurological mechanisms [1] that have evolved in humans to prioritize visual detection of snakes [2] and other common threat-related stimuli. I don't know what the science says about this perceptual mechanism being inherently linked to a fear response, but it would make sense given the hypothesized selection pressure that gave rise to it (i.e., not only noticing, but avoiding, the snake before it bites me raises the chances my genes will be passed on) 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_detection_(nervous_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_detection_(nervous_sys... 2 - http://childstudycenter.rutgers.edu/Publications_files/LoBue%20%26%20DeLoache,%202011_1.pdf http://childstudycenter.rutgers.edu/Publications_files/LoBue...

by eric_h 11y ago

> We are wired to be afraid of snakes and snaky things Are we really wired for it, though? I've personally never had that fear. Perhaps it's a little more nurture than nature? </anecdata>

jonchang 11y ago

"Experiment 1 results indicated that observer rhesus monkeys acquired a fear of snakes through watching videotapes of model monkeys behaving fearfully with snakes. In Experiment 2, observers watched edited videotapes that showed models reacting either fearfully to toy snakes and nonfearfully to artificial flowers (SN+/FL-) or vice versa (FL+/SN-). SN+/FL- observers acquired a fear of snakes but not of flowers; FL+/SN- observers did not acquire a fear of either stimulus. In Experiment 3, monkeys solved complex appetitive discriminative (PAN) problems at comparable rates regardless of whether the discriminative stimuli were the videotaped snake or the flower stimuli used in Experiment 2. Thus, monkeys appear to selectively associate snakes with fear." Experiment 1 shows that monkeys become afraid of snakes through watching videos of other monkeys being afraid of snakes. Experiment 2 shows that monkeys don't acquire a fear of flowers if shown a video of other monkeys being afraid of flowers. Experiment 3 shows that monkeys can still be conditioned in other tasks using videos of either flowers or snakes. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230660 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230660

nothis 11y ago
So, is it obvious that monkeys aren't afraid of snakes if they never see other monkeys act afraid before? Because that's what I'd test first. Further, if there's a learned fear of snakes, that might not be coincidence, even if it's not genetic.
- trevyn 11y ago
  Yep. From the actual paper referenced above: "Although considerable controversy has existed over the extent to which this fear of snakes is “innate” as opposed to based on learning, current evidence suggests that learning is necessary for the fear to manifest itself, at least for some primate species in which wild-reared but not laboratory-reared monkeys show a fear of snakes (see Mineka & Cook, 1988, for a review). For example, Mineka and Cook demonstrated that laboratory-reared rhesus monkeys who were initially unafraid of snakes rapidly acquired a fear of snakes after watching wild-reared model monkeys exhibit a strong fear of snakes (Cook, Mineka, Wolkenstein, & Laitsch, 1985; Mineka, Davidson, Cook, & Keir, 1984). The naive laboratory reared observers initially reached rapidly for food placed adjacent to a series of stimuli, including a real snake, toy snakes, and neutral objects."
  - tlarkworthy 11y ago
    My dog has instinctively done many high level things, peeing on tall things, sexing anything, responding to scolding despite I have never been violent to him, shaking water off with a weird reflex, pooing away from his home etc. It's like those behaviours are already preprogrammed. Being scared of certain classes of animals is no more.complex, I think humans probably have tons of preprogrammed behaviours we later add a narrative to. Perhaps belief in unseen agents is one of them.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

tim333 11y ago

While its not very hacker news to post funny cat videos there's one here of one reacting in what looks like an anti snake way to a cucumber. I doubt the reaction was a learnt fear of cucumbers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ov_ptXsE8&feature=youtu.be&t=5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ov_ptXsE8&feature=youtu.be...

steveax 11y ago

More anecdata... I was never afraid of snakes as a child (much to the dismay of my mother) nor am I now, but the times I've heard the rattle of a rattlesnake caused me to react in a way that was undeniably involuntary. Seemed pretty primal.

aggie 11y ago

'Wired for it' is a problematic term to use, as it is often interpreted to mean the outcome is deterministic. Humans are wired for noticing snakes. There are neurological mechanisms [1] that have evolved in humans to prioritize visual detection of snakes [2] and other common threat-related stimuli. I don't know what the science says about this perceptual mechanism being inherently linked to a fear response, but it would make sense given the hypothesized selection pressure that gave rise to it (i.e., not only noticing, but avoiding, the snake before it bites me raises the chances my genes will be passed on) 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_detection_(nervous_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_detection_(nervous_sys... 2 - http://childstudycenter.rutgers.edu/Publications_files/LoBue%20%26%20DeLoache,%202011_1.pdf http://childstudycenter.rutgers.edu/Publications_files/LoBue...