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Since very, very few of us can choose our economic conditions, calling all of these decisions choices elides what is actually at stake. Again, most of us do not

Since very, very few of us can choose our economic conditions, calling all of these decisions choices elides what is actually at stake. Again, most of us do not choose the context in which we make our decisions. > That's just stupid, and flies in the face of all sorts of research. Private schools are for grooming the children of the elite to inherit their class power. Public schools are for training the children of the public to obey rules, listen to authority, and be minimally capable of participating in the wringer of wage labor.

hueving 11y ago
>Public schools are for training the children of the public to obey rules, listen to authority, and be minimally capable of participating in the wringer of wage labor. This comment belongs on reddit, not hackernews. There is no evidence to back this up.
- carapace 11y ago
  I went to public school, this is basically accurate. What evidence would convince you anyway? Video footage of the school board twisting their moustaches and laughing as they toast their cleverness? None of the people involved are doing it deliberately (many of my teachers were obviously mad, even us kids could see it.) Everyone is (more or less) trying to do their best. I went to Montessori schools at first and then public schools after eight. The difference in educational styles was shocking. Compared to my personal experiences at the former the later were like prison camps. When the class stood up and recited the "times tables" (multiplication) by rote in unison the only thing I could relate it to was the military displays I'd seen on TV! I already knew how multiplication worked from playing with the math blocks (in fact I knew more than simple multiplication) but I didn't realize it until much later. This was just simple parroting, rote training, no insight was transferred to or evoked in the students and, indeed, no one tried. And the bells! I had never had to do anything routine according to bells in my whole lil life. That right there should be evidence for you, no? The regimented scurrying from class to class at the bell has no educational purpose and actually harms concentration and learning. The best you can say about it is that it conditions the children to being able to stop and change gears at the sound of a bell. The schools are training machinery, not raising people. Education is perhaps the single most important human activity (Parenting, Gardening, Mathematics, that's my list.) So it behooves (a word I learned in public school, it wasn't all bad..) us to do the best we can at it. Public schools, at least the ones I attended, were pathetic. EDIT: Public school teachers (et. al.) are freaking heroes and deserve so much more than we give them! One good, dedicated person can have a massive positive effect, even in an otherwise poor situation. I want to make that clear. :-)
- garrettgrimsley 11y ago
  Not appropriate for Hacker News? >Public school teachers are in much the same position as prison wardens. Wardens' main concern is to keep the prisoners on the premises. They also need to keep them fed, and as far as possible prevent them from killing one another. Beyond that, they want to have as little to do with the prisoners as possible, so they leave them to create whatever social organization they want. From what I've read, the society that the prisoners create is warped, savage, and pervasive, and it is no fun to be at the bottom of it. >In outline, it was the same at the schools I went to. The most important thing was to stay on the premises. While there, the authorities fed you, prevented overt violence, and made some effort to teach you something. But beyond that they didn't want to have too much to do with the kids. Like prison wardens, the teachers mostly left us to ourselves. And, like prisoners, the culture we created was barbaric. -Paul Graham http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html
dopamean 11y ago
Is this satire? That's the only way I can explain this comment.
- danharaj 11y ago
  Satire of what?

hueving 11y ago

>Public schools are for training the children of the public to obey rules, listen to authority, and be minimally capable of participating in the wringer of wage labor. This comment belongs on reddit, not hackernews. There is no evidence to back this up.

carapace 11y ago
I went to public school, this is basically accurate. What evidence would convince you anyway? Video footage of the school board twisting their moustaches and laughing as they toast their cleverness? None of the people involved are doing it deliberately (many of my teachers were obviously mad, even us kids could see it.) Everyone is (more or less) trying to do their best. I went to Montessori schools at first and then public schools after eight. The difference in educational styles was shocking. Compared to my personal experiences at the former the later were like prison camps. When the class stood up and recited the "times tables" (multiplication) by rote in unison the only thing I could relate it to was the military displays I'd seen on TV! I already knew how multiplication worked from playing with the math blocks (in fact I knew more than simple multiplication) but I didn't realize it until much later. This was just simple parroting, rote training, no insight was transferred to or evoked in the students and, indeed, no one tried. And the bells! I had never had to do anything routine according to bells in my whole lil life. That right there should be evidence for you, no? The regimented scurrying from class to class at the bell has no educational purpose and actually harms concentration and learning. The best you can say about it is that it conditions the children to being able to stop and change gears at the sound of a bell. The schools are training machinery, not raising people. Education is perhaps the single most important human activity (Parenting, Gardening, Mathematics, that's my list.) So it behooves (a word I learned in public school, it wasn't all bad..) us to do the best we can at it. Public schools, at least the ones I attended, were pathetic. EDIT: Public school teachers (et. al.) are freaking heroes and deserve so much more than we give them! One good, dedicated person can have a massive positive effect, even in an otherwise poor situation. I want to make that clear. :-)
garrettgrimsley 11y ago
Not appropriate for Hacker News? >Public school teachers are in much the same position as prison wardens. Wardens' main concern is to keep the prisoners on the premises. They also need to keep them fed, and as far as possible prevent them from killing one another. Beyond that, they want to have as little to do with the prisoners as possible, so they leave them to create whatever social organization they want. From what I've read, the society that the prisoners create is warped, savage, and pervasive, and it is no fun to be at the bottom of it. >In outline, it was the same at the schools I went to. The most important thing was to stay on the premises. While there, the authorities fed you, prevented overt violence, and made some effort to teach you something. But beyond that they didn't want to have too much to do with the kids. Like prison wardens, the teachers mostly left us to ourselves. And, like prisoners, the culture we created was barbaric. -Paul Graham http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

dopamean 11y ago

Is this satire? That's the only way I can explain this comment.

danharaj 11y ago
Satire of what?