4 ms·

Those should have been 0 and 0.1 in his list. Agree with all 12 points. My little grain of sand: use all the tools available to avoid bugs: a good IDE and/or co

Those should have been 0 and 0.1 in his list. Agree with all 12 points. My little grain of sand: use all the tools available to avoid bugs: a good IDE and/or code linters/inspectors can work wonders on a codebase. I've seen people still programming with "just a text editor" (not Sublime, vi, emacs or any powerfull text editor, I'm talking little less than Notepad with syntax highlighting) telling you "it's just I don't like IDEs" when asked about it.

yoz-y 11y ago
I'd even dare to say that it is better to shove Vi/Emacs experience into a real IDE rather than the other way around. I really like Vim, I use it for almost everything, however when I am working on a large C++ codebase I tend to use an IDE that has full support for visual debugging, code navigation and so on. I am always amazed when some more experienced programmers than me spend valuable time grepping files and using GDB on command line.
- klibertp 11y ago
  > I am always amazed when some more experienced programmers than me spend valuable time grepping files and using GDB on the command line. I don't know about Vim, but Emacs works very well as a visual debugger, for quite a couple of languages. It looks like this for C, for example: http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob/gdb-ui.png http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob/gdb-ui.png (it's Emacs debugging itself in this screenshot). In general both Vim and Emacs can become IDEs that are on par with other offerings. For Python development, I worked with Komodo, PyCharm, Vim and Emacs. With jedi[1] both editors get context sensitive autocompletion (for some strange reason called "IntelliSense" or something by some) and "find definition", "rename identifier" etc. With Rope, they both get nice refactoring support. With Magit/Fugitive, you get the prettiest and most functional GUI for git. With Speedbar/TagBar[2] you get classes outline. With yasnippet/vim-snipmate you get configurable, programmable snippets/templates. And so on and on - all that on top of largely superior editing model that is being developed and improved for 30 years. I worked with Komodo, PyCharm and a couple of other IDEs, then switched to Vim and I didn't feel that I'm missing something. Then I switched to Emacs because I wanted an editor that I could easily customize as much as I'd like, and VimL just didn't cut it. There is nothing comparable to Emacs in terms of extensibility, LightTable and Atom may get there with time, but I suspect it will take quite a few years. No other IDE even tries to approach this level of extensibility and customizability. [1] https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi [2] Vim version: https://i.imgur.com/Sf9Ls2r.png https://i.imgur.com/Sf9Ls2r.png
  - yoz-y 11y ago
    While you can indeed transform Emacs/Vim to a good IDE, there are lot of (experienced) people who do not. Anecdotally I have seen quite a lot of posts boasting use of 'vanilla' editors without plugins. Regarding your GDB screenshot, that is certainly good, I would argue though that using pure text (with some images included) is limiting oneself. This being said, I really hope that NeoVim will go far enough and bring good enough integration of Node.js and javascript in general (my current work uses these technologies). So far I have been quite disappointed by stuff like tern[1] [1]: http://ternjs.net http://ternjs.net

yoz-y 11y ago

I'd even dare to say that it is better to shove Vi/Emacs experience into a real IDE rather than the other way around. I really like Vim, I use it for almost everything, however when I am working on a large C++ codebase I tend to use an IDE that has full support for visual debugging, code navigation and so on. I am always amazed when some more experienced programmers than me spend valuable time grepping files and using GDB on command line.

klibertp 11y ago
> I am always amazed when some more experienced programmers than me spend valuable time grepping files and using GDB on the command line. I don't know about Vim, but Emacs works very well as a visual debugger, for quite a couple of languages. It looks like this for C, for example: http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob/gdb-ui.png http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob/gdb-ui.png (it's Emacs debugging itself in this screenshot). In general both Vim and Emacs can become IDEs that are on par with other offerings. For Python development, I worked with Komodo, PyCharm, Vim and Emacs. With jedi[1] both editors get context sensitive autocompletion (for some strange reason called "IntelliSense" or something by some) and "find definition", "rename identifier" etc. With Rope, they both get nice refactoring support. With Magit/Fugitive, you get the prettiest and most functional GUI for git. With Speedbar/TagBar[2] you get classes outline. With yasnippet/vim-snipmate you get configurable, programmable snippets/templates. And so on and on - all that on top of largely superior editing model that is being developed and improved for 30 years. I worked with Komodo, PyCharm and a couple of other IDEs, then switched to Vim and I didn't feel that I'm missing something. Then I switched to Emacs because I wanted an editor that I could easily customize as much as I'd like, and VimL just didn't cut it. There is nothing comparable to Emacs in terms of extensibility, LightTable and Atom may get there with time, but I suspect it will take quite a few years. No other IDE even tries to approach this level of extensibility and customizability. [1] https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi [2] Vim version: https://i.imgur.com/Sf9Ls2r.png https://i.imgur.com/Sf9Ls2r.png
- yoz-y 11y ago
  While you can indeed transform Emacs/Vim to a good IDE, there are lot of (experienced) people who do not. Anecdotally I have seen quite a lot of posts boasting use of 'vanilla' editors without plugins. Regarding your GDB screenshot, that is certainly good, I would argue though that using pure text (with some images included) is limiting oneself. This being said, I really hope that NeoVim will go far enough and bring good enough integration of Node.js and javascript in general (my current work uses these technologies). So far I have been quite disappointed by stuff like tern[1] [1]: http://ternjs.net http://ternjs.net