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Why did you deem it necessary to even mention that? I’m quite certain that people with sleep apnoea for whom weight is a relevant component are quite aware of

by arrrg 11y ago

Why did you deem it necessary to even mention that? I’m quite certain that people with sleep apnoea for whom weight is a relevant component are quite aware of that. Yours is just a pointless diversion in this context – because what exactly is the your angle here? Should it be hard for people with sleep apnoea to get treatment? I mean, what are you arguing here for exactly?

DanBC 11y ago
People are complaining about the length of time it takes to get treatment, and the cost of treatment, and that treatment is a racket. All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. Your comment appears to be overly sensitive to a calm, non-judgemental bit of information. EDIT: Here's the link to the CDC page which lists overweight as a cause of sleep apnea: http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html It's really easy for people, especially men, to hit a BMI of 30 and not realise that they are obese. Especially in obesogenic societies where very many people are obese, morbidly obese or even super obese. This carries a range of health risks, most of which are helped by losing weight. It's weird the source article doesn't mention weight, since it is caused by lack of sleep (especially in children and young people) and causes lack of sleep (in adults). http://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/chronic_disease.htm http://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/chronic_disease.htm > Laboratory research has found that short sleep duration results in metabolic changes that may be linked to obesity. Epidemiologic studies conducted in the community have also revealed an association between short sleep duration and excess body weight. This association has been reported in all age groups—but has been particularly pronounced in children. It is believed that sleep in childhood and adolescence is particularly important for brain development and that insufficient sleep in youngsters may adversely affect the function of a region of the brain known as the hypothalamus, which regulates appetite and the expenditure of energy
- NotOscarWilde 11y ago
  > People are complaining about the length of time (...) All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. I strongly disagree on the point of time. It is important to realize how slow actual weight loss is. By my naive googling, losing 1kg of fat per week will require quite a lot of calorie restriction, and it is not achievable easily. If you are say 20kg overweight, you will need at least 20 weeks to lose that weight, likely more as nobody is perfect and stress factors here as well. I am stressing this point as I would like to encourage anyone who suffers from sleep apnea to start both treatment and losing weight. Telling yourself "I don't have to seek treatment, I'll just lose weight" may lead you into several weeks of diminished productivity (as a PhD student with apnea, when not getting enough sleep my scientific productivity is close to zero). I am not claiming any of the original commenters suggest this, but still: "I'll just suffer until I lose enough weight" is a terrible decision.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > It is important to realize how slow actual weight loss is That's a good point. > I am not claiming any of the original commenters suggest this, but still: "I'll just suffer until I lose enough weight" is a terrible decision. Well, yes, but treatment will change as weight changes. Why go through risky surgery if weight loss might help? Why go through the hassle of sleep studies and waiting for machine fitting if weightloss will help? The alternative to weightloss is not "instant cure", there's still time delays built in.
    - wlesieutre 11y ago
      Worst case it doesn't help your sleep and only improves the other million things that being overweight is bad for. Darn. /working on it
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    I lose about 3lbs of fat per week on the ketogenic diet. High fat, moderate protein, low carb (under 20g a day of carbs). I eat all of the cheese, meat, and vegetables that I want. You learn to love eggs if you don't already. Losing weight is not hard. Change your diet and start walking (just walking) 30-60 minutes a day. https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq
  - will_work4tears 11y ago
    Weight loss is slow, but there are other benefits that might make it more palatable. I'm 5'9, currently 230, was 240+ (weighed myself after I started losing, so maybe 245), just those 10-15lbs have helped my sleep enormously. I have about 60lbs more to go until I'm at a comfortable weight, and this will take a long time (Should reach my goal by Feb '16). At my weight though, 3lbs of loss a week isn't that uncomfortable. I still eat 1500-1800kcal a day which, depending on what I eat that day, fills me up quite nicely. I agree with your other points, but I'd say that getting a CPAP is probably a good idea, but that losing weight could make that unnecessary down the road and there are a myriad of other benefits.
- adamc 11y ago
  Not everyone who has sleep apnea has weight issues. It's common, but not universal.
- walod 11y ago
  Also I would argue it's much harder to lose weight with untreated apnea for a couple reasons. 1. you're constantly over tired, and working out or even walking when you've been woken up hundreds of times per night is hell. Someone with apnea can have 30 or more breathing "pauses" every hour, and all of those times, the brain wakes up in some capacity. You can go with years of that condition untreated. Imagine trying to work out every week with that amount of sleep deprivation. 2. The metabolism and appetite changes drastically. Instead of getting a break and waking up in the morning after a good night of sleep not needing food, you are constantly sugar crazy 24/7. You never get a break from the appetite and blood sugar mayhem. This makes it really difficult to change eating behavior. The best solution is to get as many people as possible a CPAP machine so they can feel well rested and reset their system, and then they will have a much better starting point for losing weight. And yeah, you can be skinny as hell and still have sleep apnea, a bunch of people do.
  - schandur 11y ago
    I am one of those skinny people awaiting my sleep study results. And for the past several years, I felt the exact same symptoms - falling asleep behind the wheel (or on the subway); craving for food; episodes of sleep paralysis (thankfully not too frequent).
- outworlder 11y ago
  > All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. STRONGLY disagree. My doctor says that IN MY CASE, losing weight should be enough. We're talking 10kg (~22 pounds) from the ideal weight. Is this true for the general population? No idea. There are several other possible causes. And that includes central sleep apnea, or problems in the airways. We are in agreement that losing weight should be the first thing one should try. But one would think that doctors would point that out too (as they did with me).
  - viewer5 11y ago
    How are you going to STRONGLY disagree, then say "That's what I was told to do", and then "I have no idea how this applies to the population at large"?
    - outworlder 11y ago
      I strongly disagreed with the generalization.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  > People are complaining about the length of time it takes to get treatment, and the cost of treatment, and that treatment is a racket. > All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. As that is not true in 100% of cases of sleep apnea as you implied, you are being an asshole and misleading, fyi. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sleep-apnea/basics/risk-factors/con-20020286 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sleep-apnea/ba... > Excess weight. Fat deposits around your upper airway may obstruct your breathing. However, not everyone who has sleep apnea is overweight. Thin people develop this disorder, too.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  Firstly, if you are obese, losing weight will indeed ameliorate or eliminate a very wide range of common health problems. High blood pressure and metabolic precursors to type 2 diabetes are, in particular, very responsive to weight loss. But even if no-one were obese, obstructive sleep apnea would still exist. Anyone who snores could have it. The person may have a deviate septum. They might have swollen tonsils or adenoids. They might have a congenitally narrow airway. Maybe even a particularly long uvula. And then there are the non-obstructive (worse) sleep apneas, such as those caused by defects in the nervous system, where the brain is unable to tell the diaphragm to move. Being thin is not a perfect defense against sleep apnea. Nevertheless, it appears that the vast majority of apneas are worsened by obesity, and obesity is worsened by sleep deprivation. That is a vicious cycle. With my foil hat on, I suspect that safe and effective treatments for reducing body fat in obese individuals are not being researched for public health reasons (esp. as preventative measures against heart disease and diabetes), because an non-curing treatment for fatness would make ten times more money than boner pills, especially in the US. And this is why you get people doing DIY fecal transplants from thin friends in their own kitchens, or buying and injecting barely-tested research peptides (like cyclized CKGGRAKDC-GG-D(KLAKLAK)2 HCl salt) from Chinese synthesis labs. The health care system wants all the money, and the people who need the treatments most just don't have enough of it. When the flow of cash takes priority over patient well-being, people start to do crazy things out of desperation, and a sense that the doctors are acting as drug pushers instead of trying to help them get well.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > People are complaining about the length of time it takes to get treatment, and the cost of treatment, and that treatment is a racket. > All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. No, its not. For one thing, because if you are overweight and have OSA, "losing weight" can be more difficult if you don't get the OSA treated. For another thing, healthy weight loss of an amount that is likely will significantly OSA is a longer process than getting treatment for OSA, even with all the problems that can involve.
duggan 11y ago
You might be surprised how easy it is to become overweight without really realizing it. I slowly gained about 30kg (66lb) in my early twenties (I went from about 75kg to 105kg at peak over about four years). When I started having trouble breathing at night I knew there was a problem (and figured the weight might be the cause), but I didn't hear of sleep apnea until a few years after I had lost the weight (the breathing difficulty disappeared with it).
- arrrg 11y ago
  163kg, down to 84kg ±3 now (no longer overweight), knock on wood. I know all about this. That is why this condescending behavior is so awful.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    I think the condescending that you're reading is being inserted during the act of reading, not in the writing. (I could also stand to lose several stone.)
    - toothbrush 11y ago
      I'm pretty thin by anyone's standards, and at the first few comments on weight/apnoea correlation, already my body- and/or fat-shaming warning lights were flashing. But yeah, maybe i'm just over-sensitive.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - Thriptic 11y ago
        Possibly a bit. As someone who lost about about 100 lbs and kept the weight off, I've never really understood where this concept of "fat shaming" came from. I look at obesity the same way I look at smoking: - They are both self imposed, chronic problems - They both induce a myriad of known health issues - They both are readily solvable using known methods and by building healthy habits over time It is really imperative that obese people lose weight, in the same way that it's important that smokers stop smoking. You would never say someone is being "smoker shamed" by being told to stop smoking, that they are being "smoker shamed" by being told that their smoking is causing health problems, or that they are being "smoker shamed" by being told that smoking is not that attractive. Why should it be different for obesity? This difference makes me think that people view obesity as some inherent characteristic of themselves like race or sex. This simply does not have to be the case. I think if people knew how straight forward it was to lose weight by applying validated diet methods over time, there wouldn't be all this nonsense and controversy about "fat shaming".
jacquesm 11y ago
> I mean, what are you arguing here for exactly? I think that goes for you too. If you don't feel that the comment addressed you personally why over-react like this? It was simply a bit of information presented in good faith.
- arrrg 11y ago
  Because this comment is a bad-faith derailment with no point to it. Something like that has to be pointed out. It’s also the typical shitty response overweight people tend to often get – people who are perfectly aware of their weight.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > It’s also the typical shitty response overweight people tend to often get That does not stop it being true! When a doctor tells someone to lose weight to help some health problem s/he's not dismissing the health problem. S/he's giving very good, useful, achievable, advice. In England the doctor may also give a prescription to 12 weeks free on a weight loss course, such as "Slimming World". You seem to think this is some kind of /r/fatpeoplehate or /r/fatlogic thing, but it isn't. Your dismissal of this calmly presented, good faith, evidence based bit of advice is odd.
    - arrrg 11y ago
      Are you a doctor? Are you personally giving any individual advice here? That’s the issue. I have no issues with doctors giving someone advice – but that’s really not the point here.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        So you don't say anything about all the other medical advice here? This advice, with links to the CDC advice, is what gets your hackles up? In the UK positive pressure machines are only recommended after lifestyle interventions have been tried. http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/1-guidance http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/1-guidance > 1.1 Continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) is recommended as a treatment option for adults with moderate or severe symptomatic obstructive sleep apnoea/hypopnoea syndrome (OSAHS). > 1.2 CPAP is only recommended as a treatment option for adults with mild OSAHS if: > they have symptoms that affect their quality of life and ability to go about their daily activities, and > lifestyle advice and any other relevant treatment options have been unsuccessful or are considered inappropriate. http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/2-Clinical-need-and-practice http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/2-Clinical-nee... > 2.4 Major risk factors for developing OSAHS are increasing age, obesity and being male. OSAHS is also associated with certain specific craniofacial characteristics (such as retrognathia), enlarged tonsils and enlarged tongue. Use of alcohol or sedatives can also increase the risk or severity of the condition. OSAHS has been reported to affect up to 4% of middle-aged men and 2% of middle-aged women in the UK. It is estimated that 1% of men in the UK may have severe OSAHS. > 2.5 Treatments aim to reduce daytime sleepiness by reducing the number of episodes of apnoea/hypopnoea experienced during sleep. The alternatives to CPAP are lifestyle management, dental devices and surgery. Lifestyle management involves helping people to lose weight, stop smoking and/or decrease alcohol consumption. Dental devices are designed to keep the upper airway open during sleep. The efficacy of dental devices has been established in clinical trials, but these devices are traditionally viewed as a treatment option only for mild and moderate OSAHS. Surgery involves resection of the uvula and redundant retrolingual soft tissue. However, there is a lack of evidence of clinical effectiveness, and surgery is not routinely used in clinical practice. Talking about weight loss in a thread about lack of sleep is not a derailment; it is not condescending. Lack of sleep is one cause of obesity. Obesity plays a major role in lack of sleep.
beachstartup 11y ago
> I mean, what are you arguing here for exactly? i'm pretty sure he's arguing for people to treat their own apnea by losing weight instead of dealing with clinics and the treatment "racket"
rrss1122 11y ago
It is necessary to mention it. My impression is, the best way to go is to get the apnea treated first, most likely with CPAP. Once your sleep is improved and you get more energy, then you should get on a weight loss program, using diet and exercise. After losing weight, it's possible you won't even need CPAP anymore, and you'll be "cured" from apnea. This is why losing weight is one of the most important steps. The CPAP should make it easier to do so.

by arrrg 11y ago

DanBC 11y ago

People are complaining about the length of time it takes to get treatment, and the cost of treatment, and that treatment is a racket. All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. Your comment appears to be overly sensitive to a calm, non-judgemental bit of information. EDIT: Here's the link to the CDC page which lists overweight as a cause of sleep apnea: http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html It's really easy for people, especially men, to hit a BMI of 30 and not realise that they are obese. Especially in obesogenic societies where very many people are obese, morbidly obese or even super obese. This carries a range of health risks, most of which are helped by losing weight. It's weird the source article doesn't mention weight, since it is caused by lack of sleep (especially in children and young people) and causes lack of sleep (in adults). http://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/chronic_disease.htm http://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/chronic_disease.htm > Laboratory research has found that short sleep duration results in metabolic changes that may be linked to obesity. Epidemiologic studies conducted in the community have also revealed an association between short sleep duration and excess body weight. This association has been reported in all age groups—but has been particularly pronounced in children. It is believed that sleep in childhood and adolescence is particularly important for brain development and that insufficient sleep in youngsters may adversely affect the function of a region of the brain known as the hypothalamus, which regulates appetite and the expenditure of energy

NotOscarWilde 11y ago
> People are complaining about the length of time (...) All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. I strongly disagree on the point of time. It is important to realize how slow actual weight loss is. By my naive googling, losing 1kg of fat per week will require quite a lot of calorie restriction, and it is not achievable easily. If you are say 20kg overweight, you will need at least 20 weeks to lose that weight, likely more as nobody is perfect and stress factors here as well. I am stressing this point as I would like to encourage anyone who suffers from sleep apnea to start both treatment and losing weight. Telling yourself "I don't have to seek treatment, I'll just lose weight" may lead you into several weeks of diminished productivity (as a PhD student with apnea, when not getting enough sleep my scientific productivity is close to zero). I am not claiming any of the original commenters suggest this, but still: "I'll just suffer until I lose enough weight" is a terrible decision.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > It is important to realize how slow actual weight loss is That's a good point. > I am not claiming any of the original commenters suggest this, but still: "I'll just suffer until I lose enough weight" is a terrible decision. Well, yes, but treatment will change as weight changes. Why go through risky surgery if weight loss might help? Why go through the hassle of sleep studies and waiting for machine fitting if weightloss will help? The alternative to weightloss is not "instant cure", there's still time delays built in.
  - wlesieutre 11y ago
    Worst case it doesn't help your sleep and only improves the other million things that being overweight is bad for. Darn. /working on it
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I lose about 3lbs of fat per week on the ketogenic diet. High fat, moderate protein, low carb (under 20g a day of carbs). I eat all of the cheese, meat, and vegetables that I want. You learn to love eggs if you don't already. Losing weight is not hard. Change your diet and start walking (just walking) 30-60 minutes a day. https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq
- will_work4tears 11y ago
  Weight loss is slow, but there are other benefits that might make it more palatable. I'm 5'9, currently 230, was 240+ (weighed myself after I started losing, so maybe 245), just those 10-15lbs have helped my sleep enormously. I have about 60lbs more to go until I'm at a comfortable weight, and this will take a long time (Should reach my goal by Feb '16). At my weight though, 3lbs of loss a week isn't that uncomfortable. I still eat 1500-1800kcal a day which, depending on what I eat that day, fills me up quite nicely. I agree with your other points, but I'd say that getting a CPAP is probably a good idea, but that losing weight could make that unnecessary down the road and there are a myriad of other benefits.
adamc 11y ago
Not everyone who has sleep apnea has weight issues. It's common, but not universal.
walod 11y ago
Also I would argue it's much harder to lose weight with untreated apnea for a couple reasons. 1. you're constantly over tired, and working out or even walking when you've been woken up hundreds of times per night is hell. Someone with apnea can have 30 or more breathing "pauses" every hour, and all of those times, the brain wakes up in some capacity. You can go with years of that condition untreated. Imagine trying to work out every week with that amount of sleep deprivation. 2. The metabolism and appetite changes drastically. Instead of getting a break and waking up in the morning after a good night of sleep not needing food, you are constantly sugar crazy 24/7. You never get a break from the appetite and blood sugar mayhem. This makes it really difficult to change eating behavior. The best solution is to get as many people as possible a CPAP machine so they can feel well rested and reset their system, and then they will have a much better starting point for losing weight. And yeah, you can be skinny as hell and still have sleep apnea, a bunch of people do.
- schandur 11y ago
  I am one of those skinny people awaiting my sleep study results. And for the past several years, I felt the exact same symptoms - falling asleep behind the wheel (or on the subway); craving for food; episodes of sleep paralysis (thankfully not too frequent).
outworlder 11y ago
> All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. STRONGLY disagree. My doctor says that IN MY CASE, losing weight should be enough. We're talking 10kg (~22 pounds) from the ideal weight. Is this true for the general population? No idea. There are several other possible causes. And that includes central sleep apnea, or problems in the airways. We are in agreement that losing weight should be the first thing one should try. But one would think that doctors would point that out too (as they did with me).
- viewer5 11y ago
  How are you going to STRONGLY disagree, then say "That's what I was told to do", and then "I have no idea how this applies to the population at large"?
  - outworlder 11y ago
    I strongly disagreed with the generalization.
fweespeech 11y ago
> People are complaining about the length of time it takes to get treatment, and the cost of treatment, and that treatment is a racket. > All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. As that is not true in 100% of cases of sleep apnea as you implied, you are being an asshole and misleading, fyi. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sleep-apnea/basics/risk-factors/con-20020286 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sleep-apnea/ba... > Excess weight. Fat deposits around your upper airway may obstruct your breathing. However, not everyone who has sleep apnea is overweight. Thin people develop this disorder, too.
logfromblammo 11y ago
Firstly, if you are obese, losing weight will indeed ameliorate or eliminate a very wide range of common health problems. High blood pressure and metabolic precursors to type 2 diabetes are, in particular, very responsive to weight loss. But even if no-one were obese, obstructive sleep apnea would still exist. Anyone who snores could have it. The person may have a deviate septum. They might have swollen tonsils or adenoids. They might have a congenitally narrow airway. Maybe even a particularly long uvula. And then there are the non-obstructive (worse) sleep apneas, such as those caused by defects in the nervous system, where the brain is unable to tell the diaphragm to move. Being thin is not a perfect defense against sleep apnea. Nevertheless, it appears that the vast majority of apneas are worsened by obesity, and obesity is worsened by sleep deprivation. That is a vicious cycle. With my foil hat on, I suspect that safe and effective treatments for reducing body fat in obese individuals are not being researched for public health reasons (esp. as preventative measures against heart disease and diabetes), because an non-curing treatment for fatness would make ten times more money than boner pills, especially in the US. And this is why you get people doing DIY fecal transplants from thin friends in their own kitchens, or buying and injecting barely-tested research peptides (like cyclized CKGGRAKDC-GG-D(KLAKLAK)2 HCl salt) from Chinese synthesis labs. The health care system wants all the money, and the people who need the treatments most just don't have enough of it. When the flow of cash takes priority over patient well-being, people start to do crazy things out of desperation, and a sense that the doctors are acting as drug pushers instead of trying to help them get well.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> People are complaining about the length of time it takes to get treatment, and the cost of treatment, and that treatment is a racket. > All that stuff is true. All that stuff is avoided by losing weight. No, its not. For one thing, because if you are overweight and have OSA, "losing weight" can be more difficult if you don't get the OSA treated. For another thing, healthy weight loss of an amount that is likely will significantly OSA is a longer process than getting treatment for OSA, even with all the problems that can involve.

duggan 11y ago

You might be surprised how easy it is to become overweight without really realizing it. I slowly gained about 30kg (66lb) in my early twenties (I went from about 75kg to 105kg at peak over about four years). When I started having trouble breathing at night I knew there was a problem (and figured the weight might be the cause), but I didn't hear of sleep apnea until a few years after I had lost the weight (the breathing difficulty disappeared with it).

arrrg 11y ago
163kg, down to 84kg ±3 now (no longer overweight), knock on wood. I know all about this. That is why this condescending behavior is so awful.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  I think the condescending that you're reading is being inserted during the act of reading, not in the writing. (I could also stand to lose several stone.)
  - toothbrush 11y ago
    I'm pretty thin by anyone's standards, and at the first few comments on weight/apnoea correlation, already my body- and/or fat-shaming warning lights were flashing. But yeah, maybe i'm just over-sensitive.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - Thriptic 11y ago
      Possibly a bit. As someone who lost about about 100 lbs and kept the weight off, I've never really understood where this concept of "fat shaming" came from. I look at obesity the same way I look at smoking: - They are both self imposed, chronic problems - They both induce a myriad of known health issues - They both are readily solvable using known methods and by building healthy habits over time It is really imperative that obese people lose weight, in the same way that it's important that smokers stop smoking. You would never say someone is being "smoker shamed" by being told to stop smoking, that they are being "smoker shamed" by being told that their smoking is causing health problems, or that they are being "smoker shamed" by being told that smoking is not that attractive. Why should it be different for obesity? This difference makes me think that people view obesity as some inherent characteristic of themselves like race or sex. This simply does not have to be the case. I think if people knew how straight forward it was to lose weight by applying validated diet methods over time, there wouldn't be all this nonsense and controversy about "fat shaming".

jacquesm 11y ago

> I mean, what are you arguing here for exactly? I think that goes for you too. If you don't feel that the comment addressed you personally why over-react like this? It was simply a bit of information presented in good faith.

arrrg 11y ago
Because this comment is a bad-faith derailment with no point to it. Something like that has to be pointed out. It’s also the typical shitty response overweight people tend to often get – people who are perfectly aware of their weight.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > It’s also the typical shitty response overweight people tend to often get That does not stop it being true! When a doctor tells someone to lose weight to help some health problem s/he's not dismissing the health problem. S/he's giving very good, useful, achievable, advice. In England the doctor may also give a prescription to 12 weeks free on a weight loss course, such as "Slimming World". You seem to think this is some kind of /r/fatpeoplehate or /r/fatlogic thing, but it isn't. Your dismissal of this calmly presented, good faith, evidence based bit of advice is odd.
  - arrrg 11y ago
    Are you a doctor? Are you personally giving any individual advice here? That’s the issue. I have no issues with doctors giving someone advice – but that’s really not the point here.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      So you don't say anything about all the other medical advice here? This advice, with links to the CDC advice, is what gets your hackles up? In the UK positive pressure machines are only recommended after lifestyle interventions have been tried. http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/1-guidance http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/1-guidance > 1.1 Continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) is recommended as a treatment option for adults with moderate or severe symptomatic obstructive sleep apnoea/hypopnoea syndrome (OSAHS). > 1.2 CPAP is only recommended as a treatment option for adults with mild OSAHS if: > they have symptoms that affect their quality of life and ability to go about their daily activities, and > lifestyle advice and any other relevant treatment options have been unsuccessful or are considered inappropriate. http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/2-Clinical-need-and-practice http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta139/chapter/2-Clinical-nee... > 2.4 Major risk factors for developing OSAHS are increasing age, obesity and being male. OSAHS is also associated with certain specific craniofacial characteristics (such as retrognathia), enlarged tonsils and enlarged tongue. Use of alcohol or sedatives can also increase the risk or severity of the condition. OSAHS has been reported to affect up to 4% of middle-aged men and 2% of middle-aged women in the UK. It is estimated that 1% of men in the UK may have severe OSAHS. > 2.5 Treatments aim to reduce daytime sleepiness by reducing the number of episodes of apnoea/hypopnoea experienced during sleep. The alternatives to CPAP are lifestyle management, dental devices and surgery. Lifestyle management involves helping people to lose weight, stop smoking and/or decrease alcohol consumption. Dental devices are designed to keep the upper airway open during sleep. The efficacy of dental devices has been established in clinical trials, but these devices are traditionally viewed as a treatment option only for mild and moderate OSAHS. Surgery involves resection of the uvula and redundant retrolingual soft tissue. However, there is a lack of evidence of clinical effectiveness, and surgery is not routinely used in clinical practice. Talking about weight loss in a thread about lack of sleep is not a derailment; it is not condescending. Lack of sleep is one cause of obesity. Obesity plays a major role in lack of sleep.

beachstartup 11y ago

> I mean, what are you arguing here for exactly? i'm pretty sure he's arguing for people to treat their own apnea by losing weight instead of dealing with clinics and the treatment "racket"

rrss1122 11y ago

It is necessary to mention it. My impression is, the best way to go is to get the apnea treated first, most likely with CPAP. Once your sleep is improved and you get more energy, then you should get on a weight loss program, using diet and exercise. After losing weight, it's possible you won't even need CPAP anymore, and you'll be "cured" from apnea. This is why losing weight is one of the most important steps. The CPAP should make it easier to do so.