5 ms·

The worst impacts of climate change are starting to happen faster than expected

50 points by cryptoz 11y ago

dang 11y ago
From the FAQ: "Please don't delete and repost the same story, though. Accounts that do that eventually lose submission privileges." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html Deletion is for things that shouldn't have been posted in the first place, such as revealing something personal that you later regret. It shouldn't be routine, and using it as a device to help a story get attention is an abuse of deletion. a small number of reposts are ok if a story hasn't had attention yet, but you might need to use a slightly different URL. Also, link shorteners are banned on HN. Please point to the original source.
- cryptoz 11y ago
  Hi dang, Sorry about that. I'm curious, though, if you see a lot of user flags on the initial submissions I made for this article. I suspect that there are users here who will flag every story that discusses climate change, thus preventing HN users from ever discussing the topic. The initial submissions got 10+ points in less than 30 minutes, far more than other stories on the front page - but they never made it to even page 3 of HN. I'm wondering why. Sorry again, and thanks. Edit: Source article is http://rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return-climate-change-nightmares-are-already-here-20150805 http://rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return...
  - dang 11y ago
    No, those posts weren't affected by flags at all. There is a penalty on rollingstone.com by default, though, as is the case with many sites that produce occasional substantive articles along with a lot of fluff. We review most of those and take the penalty off on the substantive ones.
    - cryptoz 11y ago
      Oh, okay. Thank you for the information on that, I was wondering why such a popular story was being so heavily penalised. Would you consider unpenalizing this submission with the correct link? The article is very high quality and well worth a discussion on HN. Thanks.
      - dang 11y ago
        I've done so, but with misgivings. First, HN hasn't been capable of having much substantive discussion about this in the past. Second, Hansen's announcement was discussed recently at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9927099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9927099. Third, this article is written in an alarmist style. You can defend that by arguing that it's an alarming situation, but it sets the discussion up to be even more polarized. However, let's see what happens.
        cryptoz 11y ago
        Thanks, I appreciate your flexibility and care on this issue. I'm aware HN has trouble discussing this topic, but I think that's one reason we very much need to keep talking about it. The HN community has some of the best skills needed to help solve our climate problems, and more discussion of the urgency and scale is (hopefully) useful. Thanks again
  - tedunangst 11y ago
    > I suspect that there are users here who will flag every story that discusses climate change, Stipulating that's true, I'm not sure "I will overwhelm them with resubmissions" is the best response.
    - cryptoz 11y ago
      We -will- discuss climate change here. I will make that a life goal if I have to. However, I also realize my errors today, and I won't repeat them. HN is going to learn how to talk about this issue, one way or another.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...
      - wglb 11y ago
        We -will- discuss climate change here. This is unlikely to be an effective approach to HN readers. Keep in mind that sometimes articles are flagged due to toxic comment threads that result, independently of the native content of the article.
powera 11y ago
I'm sorry, but an article that invokes arbitrary heat waves, fires, rains, and droughts implying a "shit [has] really started hitting the fan" narrative in the first paragraph is pure link-bait and fear-mongering, regardless of the state of global warming. It's no more accurate than saying "Record snows in Germany, global warming clearly fake".
- codyb 11y ago
  I don't see that. I see "some snapshots" which points to real world examples of things that are happening, and then I see a quote from a respected panel of scientists issuing a dire warning. Is it not okay to quote scientists studying climate change in an article about climate change these days if the quote is a bit edgy?
  - powera 11y ago
    There's a difference between "Here are specific bad things that will happen in the future" and "Some weather happened, it rained here and it didn't rain there, therefore global warming". I don't trust reporters who try to ignore/hide the difference between these.
  - krschultz 11y ago
    The problem with using those types of anecdotes is that they empower people to use the opposite anecdotes. This winter was incredibly cold on the US east coast. Boston had record breaking snowfall. If you let the conversation drift into that territory, then you will not convince anyone that global warming is a threat. They can point to a couple things that "disprove" the whole thing and stop caring.
    - codyb 11y ago
      Isn't that why it's called climate change and not global warming? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to drop us into an ice age. We're very much on the edge of a knife here.
- dang 11y ago
codyb 11y ago
Maybe libertarians are right when they say individual actors act rationally for their own self interest. But what they didn't understand was the actors were nations composed of millions of irrational actors and there own self interests generally include moving far too slowly to make a difference before something catastrophic happens when it comes to climate change. It seems to me, no one I even know, really even cares. I make a point of at least separating my recyclables and being annoying and bringing it to the attention of those who don't, but from there I'm at a bit of a loss on what to do. I request no utensils when I order from seamless, but they give them to me anyway. Half the time I open my cans recyclables can here in NYC someone has shoved cardboard in there (I wish I could figure out who, it's really annoying). There just seems to be a general level of apathy regarding the whole thing. And then I see people on facebook who complain about their or my generation but all they're doing is complaining. I guess I'll get back on my representative writing game and start at least trying to feel like I'm doing something.
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  individual actors act rationally for their own self interest. But what they didn't understand... I always liked the line from MiB: A person is smart; people are dumb
- jestar_jokin 11y ago
  Recycling should be a last resort; "reduce -> reuse -> recycle" is a hierarchy. Plastics aren't really worth recycling due to poor yields. While climate change is definitely a problem, there are more problems associated with rampant consumption; I'm actually more concerned by plastic pollution. Most plastics break down into tiny particles that get eaten by small and micro-organisms, which inevitably contaminates our food chain. The workaround is to rely even more on industrial farming, making sure to isolate arable farmlands from any organic contamination. Industrial farming, of course, introduces massive nitrogen run-off, which gets into the oceans, which disrupts those ecosystems and food-chains... Both climate change and plastic pollution could have been avoided by reducing consumption, but there are too many perceived benefits to the individual and society for people to just stop. And no-one wants to be called a Luddite. On the plus side, we're in historically one of the longest periods of peace (it might not seem like it, but that's partly because we just got better at distributing information).
williesleg 11y ago
That's wonderful! Can't wait to get my beach front property once I finish shoveling all this snow.

50 points by cryptoz 11y ago

dang 11y ago

From the FAQ: "Please don't delete and repost the same story, though. Accounts that do that eventually lose submission privileges." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html Deletion is for things that shouldn't have been posted in the first place, such as revealing something personal that you later regret. It shouldn't be routine, and using it as a device to help a story get attention is an abuse of deletion. a small number of reposts are ok if a story hasn't had attention yet, but you might need to use a slightly different URL. Also, link shorteners are banned on HN. Please point to the original source.

cryptoz 11y ago
Hi dang, Sorry about that. I'm curious, though, if you see a lot of user flags on the initial submissions I made for this article. I suspect that there are users here who will flag every story that discusses climate change, thus preventing HN users from ever discussing the topic. The initial submissions got 10+ points in less than 30 minutes, far more than other stories on the front page - but they never made it to even page 3 of HN. I'm wondering why. Sorry again, and thanks. Edit: Source article is http://rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return-climate-change-nightmares-are-already-here-20150805 http://rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return...
- dang 11y ago
  No, those posts weren't affected by flags at all. There is a penalty on rollingstone.com by default, though, as is the case with many sites that produce occasional substantive articles along with a lot of fluff. We review most of those and take the penalty off on the substantive ones.
  - cryptoz 11y ago
    Oh, okay. Thank you for the information on that, I was wondering why such a popular story was being so heavily penalised. Would you consider unpenalizing this submission with the correct link? The article is very high quality and well worth a discussion on HN. Thanks.
    - dang 11y ago
      I've done so, but with misgivings. First, HN hasn't been capable of having much substantive discussion about this in the past. Second, Hansen's announcement was discussed recently at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9927099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9927099. Third, this article is written in an alarmist style. You can defend that by arguing that it's an alarming situation, but it sets the discussion up to be even more polarized. However, let's see what happens.
      - cryptoz 11y ago
        Thanks, I appreciate your flexibility and care on this issue. I'm aware HN has trouble discussing this topic, but I think that's one reason we very much need to keep talking about it. The HN community has some of the best skills needed to help solve our climate problems, and more discussion of the urgency and scale is (hopefully) useful. Thanks again
- tedunangst 11y ago
  > I suspect that there are users here who will flag every story that discusses climate change, Stipulating that's true, I'm not sure "I will overwhelm them with resubmissions" is the best response.
  - cryptoz 11y ago
    We -will- discuss climate change here. I will make that a life goal if I have to. However, I also realize my errors today, and I won't repeat them. HN is going to learn how to talk about this issue, one way or another.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...
    - wglb 11y ago
      We -will- discuss climate change here. This is unlikely to be an effective approach to HN readers. Keep in mind that sometimes articles are flagged due to toxic comment threads that result, independently of the native content of the article.

powera 11y ago

I'm sorry, but an article that invokes arbitrary heat waves, fires, rains, and droughts implying a "shit [has] really started hitting the fan" narrative in the first paragraph is pure link-bait and fear-mongering, regardless of the state of global warming. It's no more accurate than saying "Record snows in Germany, global warming clearly fake".

codyb 11y ago
I don't see that. I see "some snapshots" which points to real world examples of things that are happening, and then I see a quote from a respected panel of scientists issuing a dire warning. Is it not okay to quote scientists studying climate change in an article about climate change these days if the quote is a bit edgy?
- powera 11y ago
  There's a difference between "Here are specific bad things that will happen in the future" and "Some weather happened, it rained here and it didn't rain there, therefore global warming". I don't trust reporters who try to ignore/hide the difference between these.
- krschultz 11y ago
  The problem with using those types of anecdotes is that they empower people to use the opposite anecdotes. This winter was incredibly cold on the US east coast. Boston had record breaking snowfall. If you let the conversation drift into that territory, then you will not convince anyone that global warming is a threat. They can point to a couple things that "disprove" the whole thing and stop caring.
  - codyb 11y ago
    Isn't that why it's called climate change and not global warming? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to drop us into an ice age. We're very much on the edge of a knife here.
dang 11y ago

codyb 11y ago

Maybe libertarians are right when they say individual actors act rationally for their own self interest. But what they didn't understand was the actors were nations composed of millions of irrational actors and there own self interests generally include moving far too slowly to make a difference before something catastrophic happens when it comes to climate change. It seems to me, no one I even know, really even cares. I make a point of at least separating my recyclables and being annoying and bringing it to the attention of those who don't, but from there I'm at a bit of a loss on what to do. I request no utensils when I order from seamless, but they give them to me anyway. Half the time I open my cans recyclables can here in NYC someone has shoved cardboard in there (I wish I could figure out who, it's really annoying). There just seems to be a general level of apathy regarding the whole thing. And then I see people on facebook who complain about their or my generation but all they're doing is complaining. I guess I'll get back on my representative writing game and start at least trying to feel like I'm doing something.

sliverstorm 11y ago
individual actors act rationally for their own self interest. But what they didn't understand... I always liked the line from MiB: A person is smart; people are dumb
jestar_jokin 11y ago
Recycling should be a last resort; "reduce -> reuse -> recycle" is a hierarchy. Plastics aren't really worth recycling due to poor yields. While climate change is definitely a problem, there are more problems associated with rampant consumption; I'm actually more concerned by plastic pollution. Most plastics break down into tiny particles that get eaten by small and micro-organisms, which inevitably contaminates our food chain. The workaround is to rely even more on industrial farming, making sure to isolate arable farmlands from any organic contamination. Industrial farming, of course, introduces massive nitrogen run-off, which gets into the oceans, which disrupts those ecosystems and food-chains... Both climate change and plastic pollution could have been avoided by reducing consumption, but there are too many perceived benefits to the individual and society for people to just stop. And no-one wants to be called a Luddite. On the plus side, we're in historically one of the longest periods of peace (it might not seem like it, but that's partly because we just got better at distributing information).

williesleg 11y ago

That's wonderful! Can't wait to get my beach front property once I finish shoveling all this snow.