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> "If you can just avoid dying, you get rich." Where "you" == "the founders." Certainly hard as an employee to hang in there for all the ups and downs and nea

> "If you can just avoid dying, you get rich." Where "you" == "the founders." Certainly hard as an employee to hang in there for all the ups and downs and near death experiences after years when "avoiding dying" might look like watching the investors get their pref back and the founders getting a nice new post somewhere else.

cynicalkane 11y ago
Yup. If you have funding and employees, "not dying" is an irresponsible attitude to have. If you can't pay people what they deserve, I think you should accept death--and given that good developers have more self-respect than they used to, you might have to accept death anyway.
- moistgorilla 11y ago
  > If you can't pay people what they deserve, I think you should accept death Sorry but if they "deserve" more money they should find a job where they would be payed that. As an employee it's your own responsibility not to get screwed by your employer. If they decide not to pay you, leave. The same goes for the employer. It's their responsibility to not "accept death". Accepting death is the mindset that will almost always lead to failure.
  - cynicalkane 11y ago
    Life is not an idealized free market where developer hours are a resource to exploit in the short run. This is true both ethically and professionally. If you screw people, word gets around, and you just alienated all the talent you built a relationship with. It also makes you a bad person. If you ask loyal employees to stay on for the sake of their equity or the sake of making something great, that's fine, but if you're funded and not delusional about your chances it's unlikely you will be in a position to do this in a fair way.
brlewis 11y ago
Yes, the opening paragraph in italics and parentheses explains that "you" == "YC founders". "Founders getting a nice new post somewhere else" does not sound like "avoiding dying" to me. It sounds like the opposite. Could you clarify your point?
zxcvvcxz 11y ago
Employees get money. If they don't, they leave. If they want to hang in there through some late paycheques, it's because either they believe in the founders and/or the work is rewarding enough. You don't have to coddle employees and protect them from bad feelings. They're adults and can make decisions for themselves. That being said, founders who keep morale high tend to keep loyal employees longer.

cynicalkane 11y ago

Yup. If you have funding and employees, "not dying" is an irresponsible attitude to have. If you can't pay people what they deserve, I think you should accept death--and given that good developers have more self-respect than they used to, you might have to accept death anyway.

moistgorilla 11y ago
> If you can't pay people what they deserve, I think you should accept death Sorry but if they "deserve" more money they should find a job where they would be payed that. As an employee it's your own responsibility not to get screwed by your employer. If they decide not to pay you, leave. The same goes for the employer. It's their responsibility to not "accept death". Accepting death is the mindset that will almost always lead to failure.
- cynicalkane 11y ago
  Life is not an idealized free market where developer hours are a resource to exploit in the short run. This is true both ethically and professionally. If you screw people, word gets around, and you just alienated all the talent you built a relationship with. It also makes you a bad person. If you ask loyal employees to stay on for the sake of their equity or the sake of making something great, that's fine, but if you're funded and not delusional about your chances it's unlikely you will be in a position to do this in a fair way.

brlewis 11y ago

Yes, the opening paragraph in italics and parentheses explains that "you" == "YC founders". "Founders getting a nice new post somewhere else" does not sound like "avoiding dying" to me. It sounds like the opposite. Could you clarify your point?

zxcvvcxz 11y ago

Employees get money. If they don't, they leave. If they want to hang in there through some late paycheques, it's because either they believe in the founders and/or the work is rewarding enough. You don't have to coddle employees and protect them from bad feelings. They're adults and can make decisions for themselves. That being said, founders who keep morale high tend to keep loyal employees longer.