4 ms·

nope, as far as I am aware (my parents use them a lot in their business so they have a particular interest) it's all cheques.

by ErrantX 17y ago

tptacek 17y ago
It's hard to believe that business checks are going to be phased out in a world where Morgan Stanley takes $9Bn in funding in the form of a paper check. For small businesses, it's also hard to see how you replace the value of being able to fedex a check to a new vendor. Online payment works in places where both companies are established and have a relationship, and less well elsewhere. I know this is UK and not US, but is there something I'm missing about how business works in the UK?
- pelle 17y ago
  The US is about the only place where people are scared to give out bank account details and that is because in theory you could initiate an ACH bank transfer from the other parties account. What many people don't understand is that that same information is on a check. In most of mainland Europe everyone pays everyone through online banking. In Denmark people put their account details on their web sites and letterheads. There is really reason why you couldn't do the same here even with first time vendors. Except that some banks make it really hard to do. My old bank Wellsfargo had me sign up for something called I think DirectPay where you could do it easily. But my new bank CitiBank make it just as easy as in Europe from both my personal and business accounts to send money. This love afair of checks that American business has is all about float and frankly I am incredibly annoyed that all my clients insist on paying me by check.
  - anApple 17y ago
    It's required by law in the EU to put your bank account details on the web if you run a company.
    - ErrantX 17y ago
      I know it's an obvious comment but that's only if you sell online :)
    - Jem 17y ago
      Is it? I've never heard of this before... and yet have had to comply with a range of other laws on the web. Do you have any links about this? I don't like to think we have clients unintentionally breaking the law.
    - Luc 17y ago
      Maybe. I guess it's possible there's a EU guideline that has to be implemented by the member states, but hasn't been implemented yet e.g. for me in Belgium. Here's the guidelines (in Dutch): http://www.vbo-feb.be/files/ondernemingsnummer.pdf http://www.vbo-feb.be/files/ondernemingsnummer.pdf So the website needs to contain the company registration number, the way it's incorporated and a bunch of other stuff, but not the bank account number afaics. Though the bank account number does need to be displayed on invoices.
  - DrJokepu 17y ago
    Paying by cheque in France is very widespread. It is a lot more common that paying by bank transfer.
- Luc 17y ago
  > For small businesses, it's also hard to see how you replace the value of being able to fedex a check to a new vendor. How do you figure? Here in Belgium cheques have been phased out decennia ago, to the point that I have never had a cheque-book. To pay a vendor, new or old, I just transfer money onto their account. What's the benefit of the cheque? The only cheques I see are the royalties I get from some US publishers that refuse to do bank transfers. They cost like $30 to cash, because after I receive them in the mail and bring them to my bank, the bank uses a secure courier to fly them back to the US, where their sister bank cashes them, and wires the money to Europe. Madness.
- imajes 17y ago
  We don't bother with the fedexing in the uk :) couriers are expensive. Seriously though, wire transfers have become very efficient, simple and effective, and- i predict by 2018 - free. the FPS (faster payments service) can make transfers between accounts of different banks happen within 5 to 10 minutes or less. Whilst you and I know that it really only takes a few seconds to do a SELECT, UPDATE and an INSERT, the complexity of settling transactions takes longer, so having it all done within a few minutes is a boon. The one disadvantage about the removal of cheques is that it'll be basically impossible to delay payment now... whereas you used to be able to say "The cheque's in the post", now you can't really pull that off.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  You right. I dont think we have as much use of cheques as you guys do - but small businesses MUCH prefer them (lower charges: most banks don't charge you for small/medium numbers of cheques cashed). My parent business is small and almost all their clients (Schools and institutions) pay by cheque. It's the easiest way for the schools to pay, if they have to do it online I doubt my parents will see the money for weeks :(
- axod 17y ago
  The US is extremely far behind in banking. It's a whole other world. Also there seems to be a culture/tradition of paying bills by cheque. The UK enjoys free banking for people - free transfers, direct debits, automated payments, etc. Transfers show up in a couple of hours to most other bank accounts. Even businesses get most of that, including free banking for a year or 2. Most 'bills' - water/gas/electric/cable/mortgages etc are all setup and automated electronic transfers - direct debits. (free of course) Giving out your bank details to allow someone to pay you is fine and secure. The need for cheques in the UK is incredibly small now. Also, sure - people will probably still use cheques "for show". On things like charity TV programs we'll still see the big oversized cheques showing how much they raised. But it's just for show. The money is all sent electronically.
  - gaius 17y ago
    The UK enjoys free banking for people - free transfers, direct debits, automated payments, etc. Possibly not for much longer, it was all possible because of overdraft fees etc that people are trying to weasel out of paying. In most of the rest of the world, you pay a monthly charge for even having an account and getting an overdraft is a much bigger deal.
    - axod 17y ago
      That was thrown out. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2009/nov/24/bank-charges-ruling http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2009/nov/24/bank-charge... Thankfully they ruled that if you go over your agreed overdraft limit, the bank can charge you what they like. Sanity prevailed. I also do not buy the 'that's why bank accounts were free'. Consumer banking has always been free in the UK. Before consumer overdrafts/charges were common. I believe it's more than covered by the cost of business banking. I think it's a much better system - consumer banking free, business banking paid for. The original freemium business model.
      - nomoresecrets 17y ago
        "Consumer banking has always been free in the UK." No, it hasn't. Charges for writing cheques, withdrawals, etc were common at one point. I remember the switch to free banking in the UK when I was a child - not having to pay anything to use your bank account normally without going overdrawn was a big deal at the time.

nope, as far as I am aware (my parents use them a lot in their business so they have a particular interest) it's all cheques.

by ErrantX 17y ago

nope, as far as I am aware (my parents use them a lot in their business so they have a particular interest) it's all cheques.

tptacek 17y ago

It's hard to believe that business checks are going to be phased out in a world where Morgan Stanley takes $9Bn in funding in the form of a paper check. For small businesses, it's also hard to see how you replace the value of being able to fedex a check to a new vendor. Online payment works in places where both companies are established and have a relationship, and less well elsewhere. I know this is UK and not US, but is there something I'm missing about how business works in the UK?

pelle 17y ago
The US is about the only place where people are scared to give out bank account details and that is because in theory you could initiate an ACH bank transfer from the other parties account. What many people don't understand is that that same information is on a check. In most of mainland Europe everyone pays everyone through online banking. In Denmark people put their account details on their web sites and letterheads. There is really reason why you couldn't do the same here even with first time vendors. Except that some banks make it really hard to do. My old bank Wellsfargo had me sign up for something called I think DirectPay where you could do it easily. But my new bank CitiBank make it just as easy as in Europe from both my personal and business accounts to send money. This love afair of checks that American business has is all about float and frankly I am incredibly annoyed that all my clients insist on paying me by check.
- anApple 17y ago
  It's required by law in the EU to put your bank account details on the web if you run a company.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    I know it's an obvious comment but that's only if you sell online :)
  - Jem 17y ago
    Is it? I've never heard of this before... and yet have had to comply with a range of other laws on the web. Do you have any links about this? I don't like to think we have clients unintentionally breaking the law.
  - Luc 17y ago
    Maybe. I guess it's possible there's a EU guideline that has to be implemented by the member states, but hasn't been implemented yet e.g. for me in Belgium. Here's the guidelines (in Dutch): http://www.vbo-feb.be/files/ondernemingsnummer.pdf http://www.vbo-feb.be/files/ondernemingsnummer.pdf So the website needs to contain the company registration number, the way it's incorporated and a bunch of other stuff, but not the bank account number afaics. Though the bank account number does need to be displayed on invoices.
- DrJokepu 17y ago
  Paying by cheque in France is very widespread. It is a lot more common that paying by bank transfer.
Luc 17y ago
> For small businesses, it's also hard to see how you replace the value of being able to fedex a check to a new vendor. How do you figure? Here in Belgium cheques have been phased out decennia ago, to the point that I have never had a cheque-book. To pay a vendor, new or old, I just transfer money onto their account. What's the benefit of the cheque? The only cheques I see are the royalties I get from some US publishers that refuse to do bank transfers. They cost like $30 to cash, because after I receive them in the mail and bring them to my bank, the bank uses a secure courier to fly them back to the US, where their sister bank cashes them, and wires the money to Europe. Madness.
imajes 17y ago
We don't bother with the fedexing in the uk :) couriers are expensive. Seriously though, wire transfers have become very efficient, simple and effective, and- i predict by 2018 - free. the FPS (faster payments service) can make transfers between accounts of different banks happen within 5 to 10 minutes or less. Whilst you and I know that it really only takes a few seconds to do a SELECT, UPDATE and an INSERT, the complexity of settling transactions takes longer, so having it all done within a few minutes is a boon. The one disadvantage about the removal of cheques is that it'll be basically impossible to delay payment now... whereas you used to be able to say "The cheque's in the post", now you can't really pull that off.
ErrantX 17y ago
You right. I dont think we have as much use of cheques as you guys do - but small businesses MUCH prefer them (lower charges: most banks don't charge you for small/medium numbers of cheques cashed). My parent business is small and almost all their clients (Schools and institutions) pay by cheque. It's the easiest way for the schools to pay, if they have to do it online I doubt my parents will see the money for weeks :(
axod 17y ago
The US is extremely far behind in banking. It's a whole other world. Also there seems to be a culture/tradition of paying bills by cheque. The UK enjoys free banking for people - free transfers, direct debits, automated payments, etc. Transfers show up in a couple of hours to most other bank accounts. Even businesses get most of that, including free banking for a year or 2. Most 'bills' - water/gas/electric/cable/mortgages etc are all setup and automated electronic transfers - direct debits. (free of course) Giving out your bank details to allow someone to pay you is fine and secure. The need for cheques in the UK is incredibly small now. Also, sure - people will probably still use cheques "for show". On things like charity TV programs we'll still see the big oversized cheques showing how much they raised. But it's just for show. The money is all sent electronically.
- gaius 17y ago
  The UK enjoys free banking for people - free transfers, direct debits, automated payments, etc. Possibly not for much longer, it was all possible because of overdraft fees etc that people are trying to weasel out of paying. In most of the rest of the world, you pay a monthly charge for even having an account and getting an overdraft is a much bigger deal.
  - axod 17y ago
    That was thrown out. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2009/nov/24/bank-charges-ruling http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2009/nov/24/bank-charge... Thankfully they ruled that if you go over your agreed overdraft limit, the bank can charge you what they like. Sanity prevailed. I also do not buy the 'that's why bank accounts were free'. Consumer banking has always been free in the UK. Before consumer overdrafts/charges were common. I believe it's more than covered by the cost of business banking. I think it's a much better system - consumer banking free, business banking paid for. The original freemium business model.
    - nomoresecrets 17y ago
      "Consumer banking has always been free in the UK." No, it hasn't. Charges for writing cheques, withdrawals, etc were common at one point. I remember the switch to free banking in the UK when I was a child - not having to pay anything to use your bank account normally without going overdrawn was a big deal at the time.