4 ms·

The difference is one of degree only. Sometimes differences of degree can be big enough that they are effectively differences in type (e.g., jumping off a stool

The difference is one of degree only. Sometimes differences of degree can be big enough that they are effectively differences in type (e.g., jumping off a stool vs. jumping off a building; popping one pill vs taking the whole bottle). In this case, I wonder if there is anything fundamentally different about the US or US people that would resist a deployment of the security state to the degree that China has deployed. Or, given similar large-scale social unrest, would we also go along with the program? Is there an equilibrium here with J. Edgar Hoover on one end, and Thomas Jefferson on the other? Or, are we sliding down a one-way slope toward a totalitarian state?

caskance 11y ago
You are missing the point. As far as digital surveillance goes, the US already does much more than China.
- zekevermillion 11y ago
  I would say that we do less, but we do it much more effectively. But then, I only know what I read in the news, so to speak.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
iamthepieman 11y ago
> I wonder if there is anything fundamentally different about the US or US people I don't think there's anything fundamentally different about the citizens of the respective countries. Both are loath to give up comfort and the status quo to challenge their governments surveillance states in meaningful ways. The big difference as I see it is that the staus-quo, at least on the surface, is vastly different in the two countries so the governments go about their efforts in appropriately different ways.
- chatmasta 11y ago
  There's nothing fundamentally different between Chinese and American citizens? Are you joking? The cultures are entirely different, and that includes the perspective of the people towards the government. You can find many sources to support the claim that in general, the Chinese people trust the Chinese government more than the American people trust the American government. In China, the attitude toward the state is akin to the attitude of a child toward a parent. The prevailing wisdom in China is that what's good for the state is good for the people. Obviously that's not the case in America, where polls show record levels of distrust toward the government from its citizens. These political differences stem from fundamental cultural ones, which is why I take issue with your claim that there's nothig fundamentally different about American and Chinese citizens. On the contrary, most differences are fundamental ones.
  - jackpirate 11y ago
    The prevailing wisdom in China is that what's good for the state is good for the people. Obviously that's not the case in America, where polls show record levels of distrust toward the government from its citizens. That's not remotely obvious to me. In my experience, American citizens distrust specific politicians, but they strongly trust the state apparatus. As examples, American citizens gave/give broad support to the NSA, invasions of other countries, and police/soldiers/firefighters/anyone in a uniform.
    - prewett 11y ago
      The American founders did not trust the State, hence the checks and balances and built-in limits to the Sate. There are entire political parties whose aim is to reduce the State to the bare minimum required. To broadly generalize, liberals seem to trust the State to be able to provide equality to people, so they might appear to "trust the State apparatus." Conservatives tend to be patriotic, so they might also appear to "trust the State apparatus." But both those groups are also trying to limit the State, just in different ways. Conservatives try to limit the social creep of the liberals. Liberals try to limit the defense spending. I think you overestimate the "broad support" of the NSA, invasions, and uniformed men. If you've been reading the news it should be apparent that there is a huge lack of trust in the police, for example.

caskance 11y ago

You are missing the point. As far as digital surveillance goes, the US already does much more than China.

zekevermillion 11y ago
I would say that we do less, but we do it much more effectively. But then, I only know what I read in the news, so to speak.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

iamthepieman 11y ago

> I wonder if there is anything fundamentally different about the US or US people I don't think there's anything fundamentally different about the citizens of the respective countries. Both are loath to give up comfort and the status quo to challenge their governments surveillance states in meaningful ways. The big difference as I see it is that the staus-quo, at least on the surface, is vastly different in the two countries so the governments go about their efforts in appropriately different ways.

chatmasta 11y ago
There's nothing fundamentally different between Chinese and American citizens? Are you joking? The cultures are entirely different, and that includes the perspective of the people towards the government. You can find many sources to support the claim that in general, the Chinese people trust the Chinese government more than the American people trust the American government. In China, the attitude toward the state is akin to the attitude of a child toward a parent. The prevailing wisdom in China is that what's good for the state is good for the people. Obviously that's not the case in America, where polls show record levels of distrust toward the government from its citizens. These political differences stem from fundamental cultural ones, which is why I take issue with your claim that there's nothig fundamentally different about American and Chinese citizens. On the contrary, most differences are fundamental ones.
- jackpirate 11y ago
  The prevailing wisdom in China is that what's good for the state is good for the people. Obviously that's not the case in America, where polls show record levels of distrust toward the government from its citizens. That's not remotely obvious to me. In my experience, American citizens distrust specific politicians, but they strongly trust the state apparatus. As examples, American citizens gave/give broad support to the NSA, invasions of other countries, and police/soldiers/firefighters/anyone in a uniform.
  - prewett 11y ago
    The American founders did not trust the State, hence the checks and balances and built-in limits to the Sate. There are entire political parties whose aim is to reduce the State to the bare minimum required. To broadly generalize, liberals seem to trust the State to be able to provide equality to people, so they might appear to "trust the State apparatus." Conservatives tend to be patriotic, so they might also appear to "trust the State apparatus." But both those groups are also trying to limit the State, just in different ways. Conservatives try to limit the social creep of the liberals. Liberals try to limit the defense spending. I think you overestimate the "broad support" of the NSA, invasions, and uniformed men. If you've been reading the news it should be apparent that there is a huge lack of trust in the police, for example.