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Thank God! It feels like weeks since the last gender in tech hashtag has trended. I've been waiting desperately for something to steal the internet's vitriol a

by alexc05 11y ago

Thank God! It feels like weeks since the last gender in tech hashtag has trended. I've been waiting desperately for something to steal the internet's vitriol and outrage from this whole Cecil the lion thing. OK - yes - I'm being entirely facetious there. This might take off it might not, but I am personally tired of the seemingly endless new thing to be outraged by. Tim Hunt, Gamergate, Doglegate, Meritocracy Carpet, Beach Body Ready, Cancel Colbert ... then if you start googling around for "gender hashtags" you'll see articles extoling the "social change hashtags" of the year - but if you look at them http://www.forbes.com/sites/karenhua/2015/06/03/tweeting-to-empower-feminist-hashtags-2015/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/karenhua/2015/06/03/tweeting-to-... ... http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2014/12/29/top-social-change-hashtags-of-2014-focused-on-race-and-gender/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2014/12/29/top-social-... What has actually changed? How is the world a better place? I'm honestly appalled that this poor young woman had to suffer shitty troll comments in the internet, but a hashtag isn't going to actually do anything. Do we really think those idiots are the same ones reading the social justice pages of the huffington post? Holding on to outrage or fanning the flames of outrage are NOT the right way to effect positive social change. Shame and fear may be effective methods of effecting change, but they're dark and hurtful. Love, patience, forgiveness and kindness is better for everyone. http://www.futurity.org/shame-942522/ http://www.futurity.org/shame-942522/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-synthesis/201501/shame-and-motivation-change https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-synthesis/2015... https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/research/workingpapers/wp0807.pdf https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/research/wor... There's a reason this stuff is in the 2000 year old wisdom of Jesus (turn the other cheek) and the 2500 year old wisdom of Buddha. Love is the answer.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jrochkind1 11y ago
Wait, her response, with the hashtag, was to promote the fact that there are lots of engineers who don't look like many people's stereotype of an engineer, no? What about that involves 'shame and fear'? Why does it bug you?
- dvg25 11y ago
  Maybe because Isis Anchalee Wenger is not an engineer, despite what her inflated job title ("platform engineer") and 3-months of web development bootcamp may tell her to the contrary. That doesn't mean she doesn't face real sexism -- just one comment about her appearance is one too many. The more interesting question, however, is what does a software engineer actually look like? Does a 3-month web bootcamp give you the rights?
  - jrochkind1 11y ago
    I don't know anything about her, and didn't really care enough to research her personally, and still don't really. Why did you? What is it that bugs you? Cause I still say there is no "shame and fear" involved in this 'campaign'. I think anyone who has a job writing code can legitimately call themselves a software engineer, it's just a synonym for programmer these days, and if you program, you're a programmer. (I play accordion, not all that well. Once a teacher of mine, who is an incredible musician, overheard me answering the question "Do you play accordion?" with "Well, I'm learning," and he said to me something like "Don't say you don't play the accordion, of course you play the accordion, I've seen you playing it, you play the accordion, you're a musician. If you pick up the accordion and play something on it, you are an accordionist, which is something to be proud of. Never deny it." This coming from a guy who is probably one of the top accordionists on the planet, better then I'll ever be (because he's been dedicating himself to it for decades since he was a child) -- was a lesson for me in confidence and generosity to oneself and others vs being excessively self-critical). There are enough software engineers that I think it's clear that the answer to "what does a software engineer actually look like" is: Just like everyone else, they look like everyone.
    - dvg25 11y ago
      Why do you assume I researched Ms. Wenger? Why does that bother you? FYI, someone who was a classmate of hers mentioned it in the comments to some article on her. >>I think anyone who has a job writing code can legitimately call themselves a software engineer, it's just a synonym for programmer these days, and if you program, you're a programmer. That's exactly it: what you think. Anyway, it's not clear because people do ask (this time I just did my research...even the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics differentiate). Btw, I'm not talking about appearance when I ask what a software engineer looks like, I'm talking about whether three-month experience from a web development academy makes a software engineer. That bothers me.

by alexc05 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jrochkind1 11y ago

Wait, her response, with the hashtag, was to promote the fact that there are lots of engineers who don't look like many people's stereotype of an engineer, no? What about that involves 'shame and fear'? Why does it bug you?

dvg25 11y ago
Maybe because Isis Anchalee Wenger is not an engineer, despite what her inflated job title ("platform engineer") and 3-months of web development bootcamp may tell her to the contrary. That doesn't mean she doesn't face real sexism -- just one comment about her appearance is one too many. The more interesting question, however, is what does a software engineer actually look like? Does a 3-month web bootcamp give you the rights?
- jrochkind1 11y ago
  I don't know anything about her, and didn't really care enough to research her personally, and still don't really. Why did you? What is it that bugs you? Cause I still say there is no "shame and fear" involved in this 'campaign'. I think anyone who has a job writing code can legitimately call themselves a software engineer, it's just a synonym for programmer these days, and if you program, you're a programmer. (I play accordion, not all that well. Once a teacher of mine, who is an incredible musician, overheard me answering the question "Do you play accordion?" with "Well, I'm learning," and he said to me something like "Don't say you don't play the accordion, of course you play the accordion, I've seen you playing it, you play the accordion, you're a musician. If you pick up the accordion and play something on it, you are an accordionist, which is something to be proud of. Never deny it." This coming from a guy who is probably one of the top accordionists on the planet, better then I'll ever be (because he's been dedicating himself to it for decades since he was a child) -- was a lesson for me in confidence and generosity to oneself and others vs being excessively self-critical). There are enough software engineers that I think it's clear that the answer to "what does a software engineer actually look like" is: Just like everyone else, they look like everyone.
  - dvg25 11y ago
    Why do you assume I researched Ms. Wenger? Why does that bother you? FYI, someone who was a classmate of hers mentioned it in the comments to some article on her. >>I think anyone who has a job writing code can legitimately call themselves a software engineer, it's just a synonym for programmer these days, and if you program, you're a programmer. That's exactly it: what you think. Anyway, it's not clear because people do ask (this time I just did my research...even the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics differentiate). Btw, I'm not talking about appearance when I ask what a software engineer looks like, I'm talking about whether three-month experience from a web development academy makes a software engineer. That bothers me.