4 ms·

Sexist Reactions to an Ad Spark #ILookLikeAnEngineer Campaign

27 points by user_235711 11y ago

s_kilk 11y ago
Something tells me it's going to be a long, slow process stamping out sexism in tech. But this is a good step forward. Edit: I know remarking on downvotes is frowned-upon here, but I just can't help it. Good to see HNs resident mysogynists are keeping on top of their game!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jazzyk 11y ago
  You were downvoted (not by me) for not providing anything meaningful to the discussion, not because of your bias. Stop being a victim, don't blame other people every time you screw up (as we all do from time to time)
deadmik3 11y ago
As if companies never hire attractive models to feature in their campaigns
alexc05 11y ago
Thank God! It feels like weeks since the last gender in tech hashtag has trended. I've been waiting desperately for something to steal the internet's vitriol and outrage from this whole Cecil the lion thing. OK - yes - I'm being entirely facetious there. This might take off it might not, but I am personally tired of the seemingly endless new thing to be outraged by. Tim Hunt, Gamergate, Doglegate, Meritocracy Carpet, Beach Body Ready, Cancel Colbert ... then if you start googling around for "gender hashtags" you'll see articles extoling the "social change hashtags" of the year - but if you look at them http://www.forbes.com/sites/karenhua/2015/06/03/tweeting-to-empower-feminist-hashtags-2015/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/karenhua/2015/06/03/tweeting-to-... ... http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2014/12/29/top-social-change-hashtags-of-2014-focused-on-race-and-gender/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2014/12/29/top-social-... What has actually changed? How is the world a better place? I'm honestly appalled that this poor young woman had to suffer shitty troll comments in the internet, but a hashtag isn't going to actually do anything. Do we really think those idiots are the same ones reading the social justice pages of the huffington post? Holding on to outrage or fanning the flames of outrage are NOT the right way to effect positive social change. Shame and fear may be effective methods of effecting change, but they're dark and hurtful. Love, patience, forgiveness and kindness is better for everyone. http://www.futurity.org/shame-942522/ http://www.futurity.org/shame-942522/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-synthesis/201501/shame-and-motivation-change https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-synthesis/2015... https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/research/workingpapers/wp0807.pdf https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/research/wor... There's a reason this stuff is in the 2000 year old wisdom of Jesus (turn the other cheek) and the 2500 year old wisdom of Buddha. Love is the answer.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jrochkind1 11y ago
  Wait, her response, with the hashtag, was to promote the fact that there are lots of engineers who don't look like many people's stereotype of an engineer, no? What about that involves 'shame and fear'? Why does it bug you?
  - dvg25 11y ago
    Maybe because Isis Anchalee Wenger is not an engineer, despite what her inflated job title ("platform engineer") and 3-months of web development bootcamp may tell her to the contrary. That doesn't mean she doesn't face real sexism -- just one comment about her appearance is one too many. The more interesting question, however, is what does a software engineer actually look like? Does a 3-month web bootcamp give you the rights?
    - jrochkind1 11y ago
      I don't know anything about her, and didn't really care enough to research her personally, and still don't really. Why did you? What is it that bugs you? Cause I still say there is no "shame and fear" involved in this 'campaign'. I think anyone who has a job writing code can legitimately call themselves a software engineer, it's just a synonym for programmer these days, and if you program, you're a programmer. (I play accordion, not all that well. Once a teacher of mine, who is an incredible musician, overheard me answering the question "Do you play accordion?" with "Well, I'm learning," and he said to me something like "Don't say you don't play the accordion, of course you play the accordion, I've seen you playing it, you play the accordion, you're a musician. If you pick up the accordion and play something on it, you are an accordionist, which is something to be proud of. Never deny it." This coming from a guy who is probably one of the top accordionists on the planet, better then I'll ever be (because he's been dedicating himself to it for decades since he was a child) -- was a lesson for me in confidence and generosity to oneself and others vs being excessively self-critical). There are enough software engineers that I think it's clear that the answer to "what does a software engineer actually look like" is: Just like everyone else, they look like everyone.
henry_vonfire 11y ago
The worst thing is that "looking like an engineer" is a pejorative description. People expect some kind of nerdy appearance from an engineer no matter what gender the person is.
- mycroft-holmes 11y ago
  Exactly. I've been told I don't look like an engineer but it doesn't matter because I'm a man.
totierne2 11y ago
I think the hashtag is cool. Just waiting for lots of male engineers in drag to subvert it. Seriously though it's cheap and I really do not see a downside except woman may be encouraged to become engineers and be surprised by long hours impinging on family time (long hours (if a little self inflicted) impinge on my family time). (I will not declare whether I am male of female. My bio: Engineering degree/programmer).

27 points by user_235711 11y ago

Something tells me it's going to be a long, slow process stamping out sexism in tech. But this is a good step forward. Edit: I know remarking on downvotes is frowned-upon here, but I just can't help it. Good to see HNs resident mysogynists are keeping on top of their game!

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jazzyk 11y ago
You were downvoted (not by me) for not providing anything meaningful to the discussion, not because of your bias. Stop being a victim, don't blame other people every time you screw up (as we all do from time to time)

deadmik3 11y ago

As if companies never hire attractive models to feature in their campaigns

alexc05 11y ago

Thank God! It feels like weeks since the last gender in tech hashtag has trended. I've been waiting desperately for something to steal the internet's vitriol and outrage from this whole Cecil the lion thing. OK - yes - I'm being entirely facetious there. This might take off it might not, but I am personally tired of the seemingly endless new thing to be outraged by. Tim Hunt, Gamergate, Doglegate, Meritocracy Carpet, Beach Body Ready, Cancel Colbert ... then if you start googling around for "gender hashtags" you'll see articles extoling the "social change hashtags" of the year - but if you look at them http://www.forbes.com/sites/karenhua/2015/06/03/tweeting-to-empower-feminist-hashtags-2015/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/karenhua/2015/06/03/tweeting-to-... ... http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2014/12/29/top-social-change-hashtags-of-2014-focused-on-race-and-gender/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2014/12/29/top-social-... What has actually changed? How is the world a better place? I'm honestly appalled that this poor young woman had to suffer shitty troll comments in the internet, but a hashtag isn't going to actually do anything. Do we really think those idiots are the same ones reading the social justice pages of the huffington post? Holding on to outrage or fanning the flames of outrage are NOT the right way to effect positive social change. Shame and fear may be effective methods of effecting change, but they're dark and hurtful. Love, patience, forgiveness and kindness is better for everyone. http://www.futurity.org/shame-942522/ http://www.futurity.org/shame-942522/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-synthesis/201501/shame-and-motivation-change https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-synthesis/2015... https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/research/workingpapers/wp0807.pdf https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/research/wor... There's a reason this stuff is in the 2000 year old wisdom of Jesus (turn the other cheek) and the 2500 year old wisdom of Buddha. Love is the answer.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jrochkind1 11y ago
Wait, her response, with the hashtag, was to promote the fact that there are lots of engineers who don't look like many people's stereotype of an engineer, no? What about that involves 'shame and fear'? Why does it bug you?
- dvg25 11y ago
  Maybe because Isis Anchalee Wenger is not an engineer, despite what her inflated job title ("platform engineer") and 3-months of web development bootcamp may tell her to the contrary. That doesn't mean she doesn't face real sexism -- just one comment about her appearance is one too many. The more interesting question, however, is what does a software engineer actually look like? Does a 3-month web bootcamp give you the rights?
  - jrochkind1 11y ago
    I don't know anything about her, and didn't really care enough to research her personally, and still don't really. Why did you? What is it that bugs you? Cause I still say there is no "shame and fear" involved in this 'campaign'. I think anyone who has a job writing code can legitimately call themselves a software engineer, it's just a synonym for programmer these days, and if you program, you're a programmer. (I play accordion, not all that well. Once a teacher of mine, who is an incredible musician, overheard me answering the question "Do you play accordion?" with "Well, I'm learning," and he said to me something like "Don't say you don't play the accordion, of course you play the accordion, I've seen you playing it, you play the accordion, you're a musician. If you pick up the accordion and play something on it, you are an accordionist, which is something to be proud of. Never deny it." This coming from a guy who is probably one of the top accordionists on the planet, better then I'll ever be (because he's been dedicating himself to it for decades since he was a child) -- was a lesson for me in confidence and generosity to oneself and others vs being excessively self-critical). There are enough software engineers that I think it's clear that the answer to "what does a software engineer actually look like" is: Just like everyone else, they look like everyone.

henry_vonfire 11y ago

The worst thing is that "looking like an engineer" is a pejorative description. People expect some kind of nerdy appearance from an engineer no matter what gender the person is.

mycroft-holmes 11y ago
Exactly. I've been told I don't look like an engineer but it doesn't matter because I'm a man.

totierne2 11y ago

I think the hashtag is cool. Just waiting for lots of male engineers in drag to subvert it. Seriously though it's cheap and I really do not see a downside except woman may be encouraged to become engineers and be surprised by long hours impinging on family time (long hours (if a little self inflicted) impinge on my family time). (I will not declare whether I am male of female. My bio: Engineering degree/programmer).