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Time and time again I've heard these PayPal horror stories (and at www.paypalsucks.com). I am very leery of PayPal and make it a point to always transfer any b

by robk 17y ago

Time and time again I've heard these PayPal horror stories (and at www.paypalsucks.com). I am very leery of PayPal and make it a point to always transfer any balance out immediately, as their freezes seem like a nightmare to deal with. I wish Google Checkout had a more compelling product, and that there were a better solution for C2C sales.

josefresco 17y ago
I've heard horror story after horror story and yet I've never had any issues with PayPal. I've stored money there, used their Visa/debit cart and even opted into their money market option and made some money (off my money) for several years. Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks. I'm sure you could find someone local who absolutely hates the bank you choose to have accounts with, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll have issues.
- pkrumins 17y ago
  Can you tell more about "money market option"? I'd like to try it but I can't find it anywhere in my PayPal account.
  - sorbits 17y ago
    This is only for US accounts.
- barrkel 17y ago
  I've had one account closed down, but luckily I hadn't registered bank account details etc., only one of my credit cards. I recommend only ever registering the bare minimum of details with any given PayPal account, so that you can open up a new one with a different email address and different set of details.
  - sorbits 17y ago
    Did you get a reason as to why it was closed down?
- Uchikoma 17y ago
  I've read horror story after horror story of houses burned down. I've been living in one for decades without any problems. Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks.
  - memetichazard 17y ago
    I've heard those stories too. That's why we have fire alarms. When does the plural of anecdote become data? At least, there will be a point where we've got enough data points to start taking precautions.
- sorbits 17y ago
  I’ve been using PayPal for five years and have had accounts in 3 different countries, personal and business. I have experienced my account having been frozen a few times, but in all but one case it was just a matter of uploading the required documents. The one case where this wasn’t enough was because an account had been frozen with the claim that I used it for “cash advance”, but the actual reason was something else, so I had to call them — they do have a number you can call with an actual human in the other end. I have also sold to a lot of people via PayPal, and there is definitely a lot of fraud going on, as people have used stolen credit cards and hacked accounts more times than I’d thought to buy my product — so to some degree I do understand why PayPal are pretty strict. They are also under a lot of external regulation about anti money laundering and similar.
dhimes 17y ago
Google isn't exactly easy when it comes to dispute resolution.
- trezor 17y ago
  Does google even have non-automated solutions if you ever get in trouble?
  - dhimes 17y ago
    I was able to get a voice once. It was just sheer luck. She was very nice, but two things happened: they had just transitioned to their new adwords format, she was indicating something about it, and I pointed out that some feature was missing (like "see all ads" or something... I don't quite remember). Within minutes (same phone conversation) that was fixed. But my problem remains. I sell an educational software product, but I get lumped in with the "essay farms" that sell complete papers to students. So every time I change an ad... even just the price... I have to go through a lengthy review process. I asked her to institute some sort of trust system-- with occasional spot-checks, of course, to allow my ads to come up in reasonable time. Even my grocery store has a payment trust system! Still waiting for that system.
  - malloreon 17y ago
    They do if you're a big spender.
dhimes 17y ago
I dug around a little. Apparently PayPal's problem is that some folks are selling pirated stuff (dvds, etc.), while advertising them as legit and using PayPal to do so. Under these circumstances they have to use any means they can to verify that the seller is legit and the software (whatever) is not pirated. Apparently they were trying to do this here, but a bunch of emails wouldn't cut it. I can actually understand that. However, there should be a channel for companies to pursue to expedite the process. If I were the Apparent Software, I would send a letter from an attorney- perhaps an affidavit- testifying to what I was trying to do. This would at least take PayPal off the legal hook for anything they are trying to do. And it's a lesson for all of us. If we want to partner like this, we have to make it easy for our "silent" partners (PayPal, Google Checkout, Amazon-- they are all in the same boat here) to play along. I'm grateful to the blogger for posting: this problem wouldn't have occurred to me.
- Aegean 17y ago
  Apparently the specialists were incompetent to distinguish between standard pirated software sale and a software vendor's niche product.
  - dhimes 17y ago
    It may have been the bundling that caused the problems- I don't know. If one of my competitors started bundling my software with theirs I would be grateful for this kind of leverage. On the other hand, there should be some known (= advertised) means of acceptable proof for resolving disputes. If may also make a difference if you are working as a sole proprietor vs having a govt id # (EIN in the US). But this is wild speculation.
- grayprog 17y ago
  On the first page of the fax we wrote all 6 paypal accounts of our partners + all the URLs at _their sites_ where they show link to the sale. Surely, the 6 vendors won't point to a pirate selling web site, right? Also, we provided all their 6 paypal accounts. They could just call them to verify (which they apparently did when processing limitations of my partner's account). Jacob. Apparent Software.

by robk 17y ago

josefresco 17y ago

I've heard horror story after horror story and yet I've never had any issues with PayPal. I've stored money there, used their Visa/debit cart and even opted into their money market option and made some money (off my money) for several years. Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks. I'm sure you could find someone local who absolutely hates the bank you choose to have accounts with, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll have issues.

pkrumins 17y ago
Can you tell more about "money market option"? I'd like to try it but I can't find it anywhere in my PayPal account.
- sorbits 17y ago
  This is only for US accounts.
barrkel 17y ago
I've had one account closed down, but luckily I hadn't registered bank account details etc., only one of my credit cards. I recommend only ever registering the bare minimum of details with any given PayPal account, so that you can open up a new one with a different email address and different set of details.
- sorbits 17y ago
  Did you get a reason as to why it was closed down?
Uchikoma 17y ago
I've read horror story after horror story of houses burned down. I've been living in one for decades without any problems. Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks.
- memetichazard 17y ago
  I've heard those stories too. That's why we have fire alarms. When does the plural of anecdote become data? At least, there will be a point where we've got enough data points to start taking precautions.
sorbits 17y ago
I’ve been using PayPal for five years and have had accounts in 3 different countries, personal and business. I have experienced my account having been frozen a few times, but in all but one case it was just a matter of uploading the required documents. The one case where this wasn’t enough was because an account had been frozen with the claim that I used it for “cash advance”, but the actual reason was something else, so I had to call them — they do have a number you can call with an actual human in the other end. I have also sold to a lot of people via PayPal, and there is definitely a lot of fraud going on, as people have used stolen credit cards and hacked accounts more times than I’d thought to buy my product — so to some degree I do understand why PayPal are pretty strict. They are also under a lot of external regulation about anti money laundering and similar.

dhimes 17y ago

Google isn't exactly easy when it comes to dispute resolution.

trezor 17y ago
Does google even have non-automated solutions if you ever get in trouble?
- dhimes 17y ago
  I was able to get a voice once. It was just sheer luck. She was very nice, but two things happened: they had just transitioned to their new adwords format, she was indicating something about it, and I pointed out that some feature was missing (like "see all ads" or something... I don't quite remember). Within minutes (same phone conversation) that was fixed. But my problem remains. I sell an educational software product, but I get lumped in with the "essay farms" that sell complete papers to students. So every time I change an ad... even just the price... I have to go through a lengthy review process. I asked her to institute some sort of trust system-- with occasional spot-checks, of course, to allow my ads to come up in reasonable time. Even my grocery store has a payment trust system! Still waiting for that system.
- malloreon 17y ago
  They do if you're a big spender.

dhimes 17y ago

I dug around a little. Apparently PayPal's problem is that some folks are selling pirated stuff (dvds, etc.), while advertising them as legit and using PayPal to do so. Under these circumstances they have to use any means they can to verify that the seller is legit and the software (whatever) is not pirated. Apparently they were trying to do this here, but a bunch of emails wouldn't cut it. I can actually understand that. However, there should be a channel for companies to pursue to expedite the process. If I were the Apparent Software, I would send a letter from an attorney- perhaps an affidavit- testifying to what I was trying to do. This would at least take PayPal off the legal hook for anything they are trying to do. And it's a lesson for all of us. If we want to partner like this, we have to make it easy for our "silent" partners (PayPal, Google Checkout, Amazon-- they are all in the same boat here) to play along. I'm grateful to the blogger for posting: this problem wouldn't have occurred to me.

Aegean 17y ago
Apparently the specialists were incompetent to distinguish between standard pirated software sale and a software vendor's niche product.
- dhimes 17y ago
  It may have been the bundling that caused the problems- I don't know. If one of my competitors started bundling my software with theirs I would be grateful for this kind of leverage. On the other hand, there should be some known (= advertised) means of acceptable proof for resolving disputes. If may also make a difference if you are working as a sole proprietor vs having a govt id # (EIN in the US). But this is wild speculation.
grayprog 17y ago
On the first page of the fax we wrote all 6 paypal accounts of our partners + all the URLs at _their sites_ where they show link to the sale. Surely, the 6 vendors won't point to a pirate selling web site, right? Also, we provided all their 6 paypal accounts. They could just call them to verify (which they apparently did when processing limitations of my partner's account). Jacob. Apparent Software.