3 ms·

Chinese education kills the real genius, but does make the ordinary kids a skillful engineer(relatively), so the best kids still want to go overseas while the r

by ausjke 11y ago

Chinese education kills the real genius, but does make the ordinary kids a skillful engineer(relatively), so the best kids still want to go overseas while the rest can do math better than any other west countries after repeatedly practice. The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage), however the demanding on the average kids are too little, many kids gave up or drop out and could not find a decent job thereafter. No-child-left-behind can only do so much. There is nearly no grit/hard-working attitude in middle/high schools here at USA comparing to China. Note 1: Not all Chinese students going overseas are top kids these days anymore, in fact most of them are having a rich dad meanwhile they can not stand up the fierce competition in Chinese schools. Note 2: The Chinese education system(in that sense, the India's) produced lot of "good-enough" engineers eager to fill up the H1B quota annually, those USA kids with the same IQ ended up not being a STEM engineer most likely, which is considered too nerdy or more, too hard for them. -- No pain, no gain.

tokenadult 11y ago
I'll pull out one part of your comment to ask a question: you wrote, The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage) and I would like to ask, where does that happen? What place in the United States allows the top kids to fly freely? I ask, because I interact online most regularly with parents who have children identified as gifted children through regional Talent Search programs or specialized summer mathematics programs or the Davidson Institute for Talent Development.[1] I only very rarely hear of "top kids" (by any reasonable definition of top kids) whose parents report that the USA education system allows their children to fly freely. I just looked at your Hacker News user profile to see if you identify what country you are from. It is unusual enough here in the United States to say "USA education system" rather than "U.S. education system" or "United States education system" that I wonder whether you have ever experienced the education system here in the United States during your own education. On my part, I get the distinct impression that the United States education system underperforms for all learners in its care,[2] although not as badly as, say, Mexico's or India's. [1] http://www.davidsongifted.org/ http://www.davidsongifted.org/ [2] http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2011/international-results-mathematics.html http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2011/international-results-... http://educationnext.org/when-the-best-is-mediocre/ http://educationnext.org/when-the-best-is-mediocre/
- Avshalom 11y ago
  So keep in mind this was a decade ago and I'm sure it's changed but when I was in highschool in Florida you could go Dual-Enrollment and the district would pay for any class and reimburse you for books. I went to college with my first three semesters of college finished. While that was particularly open handed many districts will at least pay tuition for what ever advanced classes you can test into as long as it fits the curriculum (X english classes, Y math classes...). My local community college implies that sophmores and above (including home schoolers) can take any 1000 level or above class free (although the highschool gets veto power). http://www.cnm.edu/depts/outreach/dual-credit/dual-credit-the-best-deal-in-town http://www.cnm.edu/depts/outreach/dual-credit/dual-credit-th...
- animefan 11y ago
  As someone who was identified as gifted and talented in Australia, I think the parents often want things that are not particularly useful, eg early university entry, or their goal is some special university program. In high school I did training for the international mathematics Olympiads (which was too much work but otherwise a great program) and that was all the extra input I really needed. In university I did an ordinary math program, and my parents really didn't understand that the math department is more than capable of challenging high iq students. I feel that the system let me "fligh freely" because I always had access to challenging material if I wanted it (I also did debating). However my parents weren't satisfied because they wanted to be provided with a clear path from my youthful intelligence to future success.
- fspeech 11y ago
  Yes I can confirm that US high schools (public ones at least) do not let their top kids fly freely. I have a high schooler who made USAJMO as an eighth grader (and later USAMO/MOSP as a ninth grader). The high school, which is a top area school, just did not care and insisted that he took Algebra II with the rest of the 9th graders. The school counselor might have been well meaning but was more likely just following the rules. At least the teacher had the wisdom to excuse him from homework after recognizing that he is the real deal, but the system is inflexible enough that he had to sit through the class instead of getting adjusted to one more appropriate for him. His friend who is a national winner of USAMO had to do the same thing in a different school, to the annoyance of the algebra teacher there (how do you even teach a USAMO winner in an Algebra II class?).
powerapple 11y ago
People go to overseas to have a better life, mostly. Being in developing world is not healthy. Competition makes you stronger, but pressure and having to worry about living is not healthy for a free mind. Education system cannot change those fundamental issues.

by ausjke 11y ago

tokenadult 11y ago

I'll pull out one part of your comment to ask a question: you wrote, The USA education system does allow their top kids fly freely(which is really a small percentage) and I would like to ask, where does that happen? What place in the United States allows the top kids to fly freely? I ask, because I interact online most regularly with parents who have children identified as gifted children through regional Talent Search programs or specialized summer mathematics programs or the Davidson Institute for Talent Development.[1] I only very rarely hear of "top kids" (by any reasonable definition of top kids) whose parents report that the USA education system allows their children to fly freely. I just looked at your Hacker News user profile to see if you identify what country you are from. It is unusual enough here in the United States to say "USA education system" rather than "U.S. education system" or "United States education system" that I wonder whether you have ever experienced the education system here in the United States during your own education. On my part, I get the distinct impression that the United States education system underperforms for all learners in its care,[2] although not as badly as, say, Mexico's or India's. [1] http://www.davidsongifted.org/ http://www.davidsongifted.org/ [2] http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2011/international-results-mathematics.html http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2011/international-results-... http://educationnext.org/when-the-best-is-mediocre/ http://educationnext.org/when-the-best-is-mediocre/

Avshalom 11y ago
So keep in mind this was a decade ago and I'm sure it's changed but when I was in highschool in Florida you could go Dual-Enrollment and the district would pay for any class and reimburse you for books. I went to college with my first three semesters of college finished. While that was particularly open handed many districts will at least pay tuition for what ever advanced classes you can test into as long as it fits the curriculum (X english classes, Y math classes...). My local community college implies that sophmores and above (including home schoolers) can take any 1000 level or above class free (although the highschool gets veto power). http://www.cnm.edu/depts/outreach/dual-credit/dual-credit-the-best-deal-in-town http://www.cnm.edu/depts/outreach/dual-credit/dual-credit-th...
animefan 11y ago
As someone who was identified as gifted and talented in Australia, I think the parents often want things that are not particularly useful, eg early university entry, or their goal is some special university program. In high school I did training for the international mathematics Olympiads (which was too much work but otherwise a great program) and that was all the extra input I really needed. In university I did an ordinary math program, and my parents really didn't understand that the math department is more than capable of challenging high iq students. I feel that the system let me "fligh freely" because I always had access to challenging material if I wanted it (I also did debating). However my parents weren't satisfied because they wanted to be provided with a clear path from my youthful intelligence to future success.
fspeech 11y ago
Yes I can confirm that US high schools (public ones at least) do not let their top kids fly freely. I have a high schooler who made USAJMO as an eighth grader (and later USAMO/MOSP as a ninth grader). The high school, which is a top area school, just did not care and insisted that he took Algebra II with the rest of the 9th graders. The school counselor might have been well meaning but was more likely just following the rules. At least the teacher had the wisdom to excuse him from homework after recognizing that he is the real deal, but the system is inflexible enough that he had to sit through the class instead of getting adjusted to one more appropriate for him. His friend who is a national winner of USAMO had to do the same thing in a different school, to the annoyance of the algebra teacher there (how do you even teach a USAMO winner in an Algebra II class?).

powerapple 11y ago

People go to overseas to have a better life, mostly. Being in developing world is not healthy. Competition makes you stronger, but pressure and having to worry about living is not healthy for a free mind. Education system cannot change those fundamental issues.