4 ms·

>It’s a hack, sure, a dirty one, even, but as far as hacks go I think it’s quite nice. And a hack that can backfire when people start incorporating the existen

>It’s a hack, sure, a dirty one, even, but as far as hacks go I think it’s quite nice. And a hack that can backfire when people start incorporating the existence of the quota into their judgment about someone. For example, in a place where a quota exists to ensure a minimum number of A are hired, people will begin to assume that B's are more competent. And if the quota is actually working, they will be correct. (It is possible for A-ism to be so bad that the average B is worse than the average A even given the quota, which may mean it is even worse for A as people will often not realize this is the case and think that the average B must in all cases be better than the average A when there is a quota helping A.)

arrrg 11y ago
That honestly seems like an unimportant little diversion that doesn’t matter. Only used by people who really think there is no problem, used to argue in bad faith. But, ok, can you suggest an alternative that’s not just proving up the awful status quo? I love more elegant solutions!
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  >That honestly seems like an unimportant little diversion that doesn’t matter. Because any (to continue my example) A-ism that is caused by the quota is counted together with preexisting A-ism. Thus, while it does not appear a big deal, it may be a major deal.
- hunterloftis 11y ago
  The inspiration for the original article was an (accomplished) A being deeply bothered by the phenomenon you have described as "an unimportant little diversion."
mcantelon 11y ago
There's also the issue of "corrective" quotas creating new forms of discrimination (against asian Americans, for example: http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-american-organizations-seek-federal-probe-of-harvard-admission-policies-1431719348 http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-american-organizations-see... ). I think targeted outreach and blind evaluation of applications are less prone to result in new problems.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  Is it considered a new form of discrimination and not the desire effect because it is Asians and not Caucasians who suffer the greatest penalty? If that is the case, that alone tells you all you need to know about if this process is racist or not.
  - mcantelon 11y ago
    Good point. Even acknowledging the idea that whites can be discriminated against in certain circumstances is verboten.

arrrg 11y ago

That honestly seems like an unimportant little diversion that doesn’t matter. Only used by people who really think there is no problem, used to argue in bad faith. But, ok, can you suggest an alternative that’s not just proving up the awful status quo? I love more elegant solutions!

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
>That honestly seems like an unimportant little diversion that doesn’t matter. Because any (to continue my example) A-ism that is caused by the quota is counted together with preexisting A-ism. Thus, while it does not appear a big deal, it may be a major deal.
hunterloftis 11y ago
The inspiration for the original article was an (accomplished) A being deeply bothered by the phenomenon you have described as "an unimportant little diversion."

mcantelon 11y ago

There's also the issue of "corrective" quotas creating new forms of discrimination (against asian Americans, for example: http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-american-organizations-seek-federal-probe-of-harvard-admission-policies-1431719348 http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-american-organizations-see... ). I think targeted outreach and blind evaluation of applications are less prone to result in new problems.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Is it considered a new form of discrimination and not the desire effect because it is Asians and not Caucasians who suffer the greatest penalty? If that is the case, that alone tells you all you need to know about if this process is racist or not.
- mcantelon 11y ago
  Good point. Even acknowledging the idea that whites can be discriminated against in certain circumstances is verboten.