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What's the Deal with Fish Oil?
- alecco 17y agoAnd the funny thing is the Omega-3 oil in question comes actually from algae and not fish. I bet it's even easier to get it directly from the source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docosahexaenoic_acid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docosahexaenoic_acid
- tokenadult 17y agoI bet it's even easier to get it directly from the source. I think in terms of what is economical for food production and what is bioavailable to human eaters, that is not the case yet today. Scientists are working on that, I have read elsewhere.
- evgen 17y agoSoon it will be even easier to get. The new GMO coming down the pike is a soybean that produces omega-3 via SDA (converted to EPA by humans once ingested) which is a more efficient conversion process than the ALA -> EPA process that most other botanical sources provide.
- dejb 17y ago> I think in terms of what is economical for food production and what is bioavailable to human eaters I've been taking Algae based DHA supplements for a while. The consensus seems to be that it should work just as well as DHA from fish oil but so far there are no studies using this form so it isn't 100% certain. The cost is somewhat more than fish oil (maybe 2 or 3 times the prices) although I'm sure that is mostly because it is a niche product. There are also version with both DHA and EPA but they are a fair bit more expensive and the conversion of ALA to EPA is generally viewed as good enough for flax seed oil to be used for EPA.
- blakeweb 17y agoFYI, the author mentions "flax oil also fits the bill", which from what I know, and from the most recent Nutrition Action Newsletter (nonprofit consumer information organization), isn't true. It's in their latest (November) issue, but I can't find a link to it online. http://www.cspinet.org/nah/index.htm http://www.cspinet.org/nah/index.htm Flax oil I believe contains mostly omega-6, which people aren't generally as needy of with our current diets.
- jpschorr 17y agoThe problem with the omeaga-3 in flax oil is that it's ALA, while we really need EPA and DHA. Although the body can convert ALA, it doesn't do so with great efficiency. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/omega-3-dosage-sources/ http://www.marksdailyapple.com/omega-3-dosage-sources/
- dejb 17y agoFrom what I've heard the conversion from ALA to EPA is OK but conversion to DHA is a lot more variable.
- catzaa 17y agoAs I understand it a high amount of Omega-6 means that you cannot absorb the omega-3. From WP: > Thus accumulation of long-chain n−3 fatty acids in tissues is more effective when they are obtained directly from food or when competing amounts of n−6 analogs do not greatly exceed the amounts of n−3. Fish oil contains a higher ratio of omega-3 to omega 6 than other sources (flax seed). Also, fish oil contains Vitamin D which is very good for teeth (if you get enough vitamin D, holes in teeth repair themselves). A lot of fish oil is also specified as "cod liver oil". So I don't think that it uses the above fish and i don't think that the cod livers is used in food (so it is a byproduct).
- 10ren 17y ago> if you get enough vitamin D, holes in teeth repair themselves I'm interested - do you have a citation for that? I've read that teeth can repair themselves to some extent in Weston A. Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.
- ars 17y agoParts of this article is almost word for word straight from the wikipedia article on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menhaden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menhaden.
- zach 17y agoAnd if that guy who keeps editing the Wikipedia page doesn't stop, this article is going to become wholesale plagiarism!
- ars 17y agoNo, I checked the wikipedia article on the date before he published his piece. And yes, some of his article is making his way back to wikipedia - but now wikipedia has a ref.
- m_eiman 17y agoThat might be a business opportunity - create a magazine that publishes rewrites of Wikipedia articles in need of references (for a moderate fee). It could actually even be a magazine with interesting, if diverse, content!
- gwern 17y agoI just subscribe to the Daily Article ML (https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/daily-article-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/daily-article-l)!
- kingkongreveng_ 17y agoI get a kick out of these consecutive sentences: > the company’s ... continued right to fish in federal waters, means a half-billion menhaden are still taken from the ecosystem every year. ... this egregious privatization of what is essentially a public resource is shocking. The whole issue is that public federal waters and fishing rights are being abused but this guy complains the problem is privatization.
- anigbrowl 17y agoAh, it's a private company that does all the fishing and books all the profit. As in, catches 90% of the fish. Apparently they don't need any special license to do this. Your point was...?
- kingkongreveng_ 17y agoIs it really going over your head that the issue here is the fishing rights are public? Tragedy of the commons, all that?
- anigbrowl 17y agoYou're right. What we really need to do here is grant a monopoly, which will solve the problem immediately. Then we can move on to privatizing the air and things like that.
- hugh_ 17y agoInterestingly, if air were in danger of being over-breathed then privatization would be the best solution. The only reason we don't have a tragedy of the commons in the air is that there's an awful lot of it and nobody has anything to gain by breathing a hundred times more.
- hristov 17y agoHow can it be a tragedy of the commons if only one person does it?
- techiferous 17y agoWalnuts.
- silentbicycle 17y agoThe deal with fish oil is walnuts?
- ptuzla 17y agoThe discussion about flaxseed oil holds for walnuts, too. The type of omega-3 in walnuts is called alpha-linolenic acid, or ALA which is widely believed to be not as beneficial as EPA and DHA for the human body.
- alexyim 17y agoA lot of fish oil is made from other sources of fish, such as sardines and anchovies.
- MikeCapone 17y agoIndeed. My bottle (bought from costco) cites those two fishes as ingredients.
- jseifer 17y agoWhile this isn't directly about the article, anyone who regularly takes fish oil should read "The Great Fish Oil Experiment" by Ray Peat at http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml. That linked article goes in to way too much depth to really paste anything useful here but he basically says that while there are short term benefits to fish oil, it could actually be quite harmful to take it in the long term.
- msluyter 17y agoAs someone who recently started taking fish oil (prescribed my my doctor) due to low HDL levels, I find this highly frustrating. And it's not like I could just eat fish; it seems most of our fish sources are contaminated. The more I learn about nutrition, the more uncertain I become about what to eat, and the angrier I become towards our entire agricultural industry.
- DavidMcLaughlin 17y agoI was a one-time subscriber of Men's Health and let me tell you something: everything, absolutely everything is potentially bad for you. In one issue they could say that drinking a beer a day in moderation can prevent certain cancers and taking too much health supplements can cause irreversible, long-term damage to your liver. Then six issues later they could say to get the dream abs you've always wanted, you must take these same health supplements every day and cut out all beer. They can provide facts and statistics to sell you any nutritional scare story, and the whole game is this: they want you to think that you NEED them, so that you will continue to buy their magazine. Most people take one story or more from this type of scare tactic and run with it. Every diet has its secret. Every nutritionist has his angle to keep you living for longer or to get results in the gym faster. No wants makes money on the obvious: eat equally from every food group and without bias, exercise regularly (cardiovascular and weight training) and most importantly - have a bit of luck on the way - and you'll be fine.
- michaeljung 17y agoIndeed, if we would listen to every message abt food wish is contaminated with gen altering stuff, traces of lead through the tins and coating, pesticides on fruits, and contaminated soil, ... we couldn't eat anything. Still, from what I read, effects show up only long-term. I might get impotent because of these plastic altering stuff, which makes plastic softer (ie bottles) but this stuff leaks into the fluid/food - alter genes, increase cancer risk, and act like estrogen.
- 3dFlatLander 17y agoHempseed has good levels of omega 3, 6, and 9 fatty acids, with whole seeds are especially nutritious.
- pierrefar 17y agoThe omega-3/cardiovascular disease prevention is a weak link at best. From this Cochrane Collaboration meta review: http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003177.html http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003177.html It is not clear that dietary or supplemental omega 3 fats alter total mortality, combined cardiovascular events or cancers in people with, or at high risk of, cardiovascular disease or in the general population. There is no evidence we should advise people to stop taking rich sources of omega 3 fats, but further high quality trials are needed to confirm suggestions of a protective effect of omega 3 fats on cardiovascular health. There is no clear evidence that omega 3 fats differ in effectiveness according to fish or plant sources, dietary or supplemental sources, dose or presence of placebo.
- miked 17y agoThere is no clear evidence that omega 3 fats differ in effectiveness according to fish or plant sources, dietary or supplemental sources, dose or presence of placebo. There are effectively no plant sources, except for algae. 25,000 years ago we consumed omega-3 and omega-6 precursors in a 1:1 ratio. Today, thanks to the widespread consumption of cereal grains and few sweetbread meats, that ratio is about 1:20. That has drastic implications for the production of essential lipids like EPA that the body cannot create on its own.
- skmurphy 17y agoThis is from 2004, there has been serious criticism of their conclusions. See for example http://www.issfal.org.uk/index.php/lipid-matters-mainmenu-8/hooper-rebuttal-mainmenu-38?showall=1 http://www.issfal.org.uk/index.php/lipid-matters-mainmenu-8/... two key paragraphs (but they list several other concerns as well): The null conclusion of the Cochrane report rests entirely upon inclusion of one trial, DART 2 2. This was a randomized dietary trial with clinical endpoints testing the effects on total mortality of either giving advice to eat fish or providing fish oil capsules to men with angina. Surprisingly, while total mortality was not statistically different in the two groups, there was less sudden death in the control group than in the intervention group. Upon exclusion of DART 2 from the meta-analysis, the overall decrease in relative risk with omega-3 consumption became similar to that reported in a previous meta-analysis by Bucher et al: 0.83 (95% confidence interval, 0.75 to 0.91) 3 In our view, the weight of the evidence available in May of 2006 is sufficient to conclude, even in light of the Cochrane analysis, that EPA and DHA reduce risk for cardiovascular diseases. Not only do we feel so, but also the American Heart Association/American College of Cardiology 15 , the European Society for Cardiology 16 , a systematic review conducted for the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality at the NIH 17 , the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis 18 , and a number of other national and international bodies 19-22
- cpach 17y agoI've been planning to get fish oil for quite some time and today I finally bought some capsules. Thank you frankus for the reminder :) EDIT: Hm. Maybe I've should've RTFA before I commented. I hope that the product I bought is one of the 75 that do not deplete the menhaden stock. Maybe a certificate for this would be nice?
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