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Disappointed that a GNU project would host their source code on a non-free SaaS platform. Yes, there's a "community" version of GitLab, but that's not what git

Disappointed that a GNU project would host their source code on a non-free SaaS platform. Yes, there's a "community" version of GitLab, but that's not what gitlab.com is running.

sytse 11y ago
GitLab.com is indeed running GitLab Enterprise Edition. The reason is that we want easy access to performance data for running enterprise features at scale. You can run a GitLab.com SaaS with GitLab CE without any problems. There are many organizations running GitLab CE with thousands of developers. Is there any feature of which you think it is unjust that it is on GitLab.com but not in GitLab CE?
- davexunit 11y ago
  >Is there any feature of which you think it is unjust that it is on GitLab.com but not in GitLab CE? Any feature which cannot be self-hosted, and any minified JavaScript served to the users without the corresponding source code available. A GNU project depending on SaaS harms GNU's mission. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but GNU Mailman was using JIRA, too, which is also very bad.
  - sytse 11y ago
    All features can be self-hosted by some are proprietary, the list can be found on https://about.gitlab.com/features/#compare https://about.gitlab.com/features/#compare With a GNU entousiast we looked into the javascript issue, all source code is available via https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee and the license ensures all downloaded javascript from GitLab.com is MIT licensed https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/blob/master/LICENSE#L11 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/blob/master/LICENSE#...
    - davexunit 11y ago
      >With a GNU entousiast we looked into the javascript issue, all source code is available Awesome! I didn't know about that. That resolves the biggest issue for users. I'm very happy you folks took the time to do that.
      - sytse 11y ago
        :) You're very welcome, glad you like it
    - quot66555 11y ago
      If true, this would be a great opportunity to demonstrate use of something like LibreJS (http://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/free-your-javascript.html http://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/free-your-javascript.htm...). I don't think it's used very much but I like the concept. I think it would distinguish Gitlab quite nicely.
      - sytse 11y ago
        Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure what the impact on our code would be. Feel free to make a merge request with an example and mention me.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - mikegerwitz 11y ago
        I'm the one that worked with Sytse originally on liberating GitLab EE's JS. I intend to submit patches for LibreJS as well, but I've been busy with far too many other things. Would you or someone else like to help? (Contact me at mtg@gnu.org)
    - quadrangle 11y ago
      Thanks for making all the JS on GitLab.com free/libre/open (assuming that's what you're saying)!
      - sytse 11y ago
        Yes, that is what I'm saying, and you're very welcome. Also see this guest post by Mike Gerwitz, a free software hacker and activist, and author of GNU ease.js https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-software/ https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-so...
  - jaysee 11y ago
    While not truly 'open source', the source code for JIRA is available to customers (https://developer.atlassian.com/display/JIRADEV/Building+JIRA+from+source https://developer.atlassian.com/display/JIRADEV/Building+JIR...).
    - davexunit 11y ago
      Then it's not free software, and GNU projects should not depend on it.
  - quadrangle 11y ago
    To be fair, it would require unfortunate care, but it's certainly possible to use GitLab.com and consciously avoid any of the proprietary features, thus not actually be dependent.
scrollaway 11y ago
And I bet the servers gitlab services are on are running non-free firmware as well. What monsters.
mikegerwitz 11y ago
It's an uncomfortable topic. But SaaSS is a separate issue from software freedom,[0] and you can choose to use GitLab without using any SaaSS features. I worked with Sytse Sijbrandij (GitLab B.V. CEO) back in May to ensure that all JavaScript served to the client---and all scripts that generate it---is free: https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-software/ https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-so... [0]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
- davexunit 11y ago
  Thank you for doing this work! And yes, I'm aware that SaaSS has its own separate issues. I've read the essay a few times now.

Disappointed that a GNU project would host their source code on a non-free SaaS platform. Yes, there's a "community" version of GitLab, but that's not what gitlab.com is running.

sytse 11y ago

GitLab.com is indeed running GitLab Enterprise Edition. The reason is that we want easy access to performance data for running enterprise features at scale. You can run a GitLab.com SaaS with GitLab CE without any problems. There are many organizations running GitLab CE with thousands of developers. Is there any feature of which you think it is unjust that it is on GitLab.com but not in GitLab CE?

davexunit 11y ago
>Is there any feature of which you think it is unjust that it is on GitLab.com but not in GitLab CE? Any feature which cannot be self-hosted, and any minified JavaScript served to the users without the corresponding source code available. A GNU project depending on SaaS harms GNU's mission. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but GNU Mailman was using JIRA, too, which is also very bad.
- sytse 11y ago
  All features can be self-hosted by some are proprietary, the list can be found on https://about.gitlab.com/features/#compare https://about.gitlab.com/features/#compare With a GNU entousiast we looked into the javascript issue, all source code is available via https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee and the license ensures all downloaded javascript from GitLab.com is MIT licensed https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/blob/master/LICENSE#L11 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/blob/master/LICENSE#...
  - davexunit 11y ago
    >With a GNU entousiast we looked into the javascript issue, all source code is available Awesome! I didn't know about that. That resolves the biggest issue for users. I'm very happy you folks took the time to do that.
    - sytse 11y ago
      :) You're very welcome, glad you like it
  - quot66555 11y ago
    If true, this would be a great opportunity to demonstrate use of something like LibreJS (http://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/free-your-javascript.html http://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/free-your-javascript.htm...). I don't think it's used very much but I like the concept. I think it would distinguish Gitlab quite nicely.
    - sytse 11y ago
      Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure what the impact on our code would be. Feel free to make a merge request with an example and mention me.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikegerwitz 11y ago
      I'm the one that worked with Sytse originally on liberating GitLab EE's JS. I intend to submit patches for LibreJS as well, but I've been busy with far too many other things. Would you or someone else like to help? (Contact me at mtg@gnu.org)
  - quadrangle 11y ago
    Thanks for making all the JS on GitLab.com free/libre/open (assuming that's what you're saying)!
    - sytse 11y ago
      Yes, that is what I'm saying, and you're very welcome. Also see this guest post by Mike Gerwitz, a free software hacker and activist, and author of GNU ease.js https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-software/ https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-so...
- jaysee 11y ago
  While not truly 'open source', the source code for JIRA is available to customers (https://developer.atlassian.com/display/JIRADEV/Building+JIRA+from+source https://developer.atlassian.com/display/JIRADEV/Building+JIR...).
  - davexunit 11y ago
    Then it's not free software, and GNU projects should not depend on it.
- quadrangle 11y ago
  To be fair, it would require unfortunate care, but it's certainly possible to use GitLab.com and consciously avoid any of the proprietary features, thus not actually be dependent.

scrollaway 11y ago

And I bet the servers gitlab services are on are running non-free firmware as well. What monsters.

mikegerwitz 11y ago

It's an uncomfortable topic. But SaaSS is a separate issue from software freedom,[0] and you can choose to use GitLab without using any SaaSS features. I worked with Sytse Sijbrandij (GitLab B.V. CEO) back in May to ensure that all JavaScript served to the client---and all scripts that generate it---is free: https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-software/ https://about.gitlab.com/2015/05/20/gitlab-gitorious-free-so... [0]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

davexunit 11y ago
Thank you for doing this work! And yes, I'm aware that SaaSS has its own separate issues. I've read the essay a few times now.