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GNU Mailman is now hosted on GitLab
- rkangel 11y agoIt's nice to see projects using other things like Gitlab a bit more. I like Github very much but it looked like it was heading in the direction of a monopoly which isn't great for anyone. We use Gitlab at work and I like it very much (but as it replaced Subversion, maybe I'm a little biased). Edit: Fixed the stupid Github/Gitlab swap
- sytse 11y agoI think in the sentence were you're talking about a monopoly you mean GitHub and not us :)
- pwny 11y agoI just want to say (since you're here and this is a post about Gitlab) that your product is awesome. A few friends and I spun up our own instance of the CE about a week ago because we weren't too happy about Github's stance. It was incredibly easy to set up and it works flawlessly on a small 1 core, 2Gb VM. A little off topic but can you share the effect the recent Github stuff has had for Gitlab? Did you get a lot more traffic?
- rubiquity 11y agoI'm out of the loop I guess but what is "the recent GitHub stuff?"
- Goronmon 11y agoJust google "github open code of conduct" should provide a decent overview.
- Argorak 11y agoI did that and the first result was the GitLab code of conduct, hosted on GitHub. https://github.com/gitlabhq/gitlabhq/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#code-of-conduct https://github.com/gitlabhq/gitlabhq/blob/master/CONTRIBUTIN... You're welcome.
- sytse 11y agoGoogle 'thinks' highly of GitHub. Our CoC for GitLab the project is also hosted on GitLab.com https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#code-of-conduct https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/blob/master/CONTRIBU... Our canonical source is GitLab.com https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/tree/master#canonical-source https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/tree/master#canonica...
- pervycreeper 11y agoDo you have any plans to revise that in order to preempt the sorts of problems that users are having with Github? I would imagine that most of the new users are expecting an environment there which isn't r-------.
- sytse 11y agoThat CoC is for GitLab the project. Not for GitLab.com. Right now we handle GitLab.com issues on a case by case basis. So far it was only Gamergate but I'm sure more will come up in the future. Gamergate opted to run their own GitLab instance http://gitgud.io/users/sign_in http://gitgud.io/users/sign_in
- PLCC 11y agoThe open code of conduct they have adopted. https://github.com/blog/2039-adopting-the-open-code-of-conduct https://github.com/blog/2039-adopting-the-open-code-of-condu... http://todogroup.org/opencodeofconduct/ http://todogroup.org/opencodeofconduct/ >Physical contact and simulated physical contact (eg, textual descriptions like “hug” or “backrub”) without consent or after a request to stop >Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. We will not act on complaints regarding: ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia’ Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,” “go away,” or “I’m not discussing this with you” Refusal to explain or debate social justice concepts Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial Criticizing racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressive behavior or assumptions >Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honor diversity in age, gender, gender identity or expression, culture, ethnicity, language, national origin, political beliefs, profession, race, religion, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, and technical ability. We will not tolerate discrimination based on any of the protected characteristics above, including participants with disabilities.
- amyjess 11y agoYes, that CoC is seriously creepy. Saying "we're going to protect some groups but not others" is absolutely abhorrent. Either forbid all racism or allow everything (and just to make this clear: I'm very much on the side of forbidding all racism, no matter what race it targets), but saying "we'll allow hate speech about one race but we'll remove hate speech about another" is the literal definition of endorsing racism. And then the bit about "tone"; they're basically saying that they explicitly allow blatant incivility. Now, that wouldn't be so bad if they had a "we never remove anything" policy, but they clearly don't. If they're going to remove bad content, then they need to have a policy of "keep a civil tongue in your mouth or get it cut out". Also, as a trans girl, I don't tolerate anyone in my life saying "die cis scum" or #KillAllMen, and I call that shit out. (edit: so, this apparently applies only to the projects GitHub maintains themselves and isn't a site-wide thing, so it's not as bad as I've feared, but I still don't like it)
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- hga 11y agoMuch more significant to me than the Code of Conduct stuff (which just continues internal stuff like the purge of their meritocracy rug) is their precipitous disappearing of a repository that described itself as "X for retards", and without notice, its forks where all the current development was. See more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118 and some discussion here WRT their recent $240M round of investment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9971946 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9971946
- sytse 11y agoI just looked into it and I'm surprised that there seems to be a huge effect. See http://i.imgur.com/QGxzRau.png http://i.imgur.com/QGxzRau.png for our analytics data.
- pwny 11y agoThanks a ton! Am I really seeing a ~2x increase?
- sytse 11y agoYes, it's pretty crazy.
- incepted 11y agoIt doesn't mean anything without the Y axis. It's very easy to double numbers when these numbers are minuscule to start with.
- sytse 11y agoPlease see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10003740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10003740 for one with numbers.
- evv 11y agoI see you conveniently forgot to label the y-axis. If you don't want to tell us the scale, could you at least mention what the unit is? Daily actives on GL.com? Regardless, this is majorly exciting and this growth is a tremendous leap for the open source community.
- Goronmon 11y agoI don't think he forgot. I think that's just a cropped screenshot of a larger graph.
- sytse 11y agoI didn't forget that :) Anyway, here is a new one with all the axis shown, I guess it will not cause any problems. This is GitLab.com (the SaaS) and about.gitlab.com (our static website) combined http://i.imgur.com/HzaqlAN.png http://i.imgur.com/HzaqlAN.png
- rkangel 11y agoYes, that was me being dumb. Fixed.
- sytse 11y agoNo problem, thanks for fixing.
- Touche 11y agoDon't you find GitLab to be incredibly slow though? I just went to the mailman group: https://gitlab.com/groups/mailman https://gitlab.com/groups/mailman And it took a good 30 seconds to load. Even when I refresh it's 10 seconds before I get an html response at all, and then I see a loading indicator for another 10-20 seconds.
- pfg 11y agoThat's weird, I'm getting 2-3s with an empty cache, and a bit shy of 1s with a primed cache. Pingdom reports 3.41s from San Jose, California (I'm in Central Europe).
- sytse 11y agoThere are load problems, sorry about that, GitHub imports from people migrating are killing us at the moment https://twitter.com/gitlabstatus/status/628588535319281664 https://twitter.com/gitlabstatus/status/628588535319281664
- Touche 11y agoDo you have servers on the east coast? It might be slower than normal, but I always find it to be quite slow.
- sytse 11y agoRight now the servers are in Frankfurt (EU) but we're planning to move them to the east coast (AWS) in the next few weeks. Right now we're working with the LinBit DRBD consultants to make that happen. After that we plan to move to Azure, but again on the east coast.
- Touche 11y agoAre you counting the time it takes for the ajax to complete?
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- j-pb 11y agoGood. They (GitLab) deserve all our support for having both a great and free service as well as awesome open source software. We've seen what happens with monopolised infrastructure with github recently. I hope the whole github fiasco will bring more people to gitlab.
- reddotX 11y agowhat github fiasco?
- valdiorn 11y agothe whole "we host half the world's open source projects but we're going to censor content at a whim" -fiasco.
- tedchs 11y agoIs he referring to the thing with the word "retarded"? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118
- brandonwamboldt 11y agoNot just that, GitHub's new Code of Conduct is pretty sketchy (e.g. racism is against the CoC but "reverse" racism isn't). The exact quote is: "We will not act on complaints regarding ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia’" which is stupid and not really a thing. It's not reverse racism, its just racism. Also, GitHub has been removing other projects, like some Gamergate ones (like this markdown only repo: http://imgur.com/a/CMRVq http://imgur.com/a/CMRVq). Regardless of your opinion on Gamergate, the repos weren't violating the ToS and shouldn't have been removed.
- spdustin 11y agoSeems clear to me. "Reverse racism" isn't a thing. It's simply racism to view a person as inferior or superior based on their race. Reverse racism would be, I guess, saying your own race is inferior?
- davexunit 11y agoDisappointed that a GNU project would host their source code on a non-free SaaS platform. Yes, there's a "community" version of GitLab, but that's not what gitlab.com is running.
- sytse 11y agoGitLab.com is indeed running GitLab Enterprise Edition. The reason is that we want easy access to performance data for running enterprise features at scale. You can run a GitLab.com SaaS with GitLab CE without any problems. There are many organizations running GitLab CE with thousands of developers. Is there any feature of which you think it is unjust that it is on GitLab.com but not in GitLab CE?
- davexunit 11y ago>Is there any feature of which you think it is unjust that it is on GitLab.com but not in GitLab CE? Any feature which cannot be self-hosted, and any minified JavaScript served to the users without the corresponding source code available. A GNU project depending on SaaS harms GNU's mission. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but GNU Mailman was using JIRA, too, which is also very bad.
- sytse 11y agoAll features can be self-hosted by some are proprietary, the list can be found on https://about.gitlab.com/features/#compare https://about.gitlab.com/features/#compare With a GNU entousiast we looked into the javascript issue, all source code is available via https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee and the license ensures all downloaded javascript from GitLab.com is MIT licensed https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/blob/master/LICENSE#L11 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/blob/master/LICENSE#...
- davexunit 11y ago>With a GNU entousiast we looked into the javascript issue, all source code is available Awesome! I didn't know about that. That resolves the biggest issue for users. I'm very happy you folks took the time to do that.
- akhilcacharya 11y agoI thought this was old news. I've been using the Gitlab repo for weeks now.
- sytse 11y agoIt could have taken place weeks ago. I got a Google Alert with the repo this morning and decided to tweet it https://twitter.com/gitlab/status/628546834013810688 https://twitter.com/gitlab/status/628546834013810688 I think that is what lead someone to post it to HN
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- mr337 11y agoThe thing about their SaaS setup for a tiny dev shop like us with two devs, the smallest I can buy is a 100 pack.
- sytse 11y agoI don't understand what you mean with 'SaaS setup'. Our SaaS service is free, see https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-com/ https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-com/. You can use GitLab CE for free on your own server https://about.gitlab.com/downloads/ https://about.gitlab.com/downloads/ or get GitLab EE with a subscription https://about.gitlab.com/pricing/ https://about.gitlab.com/pricing/ The most affordable subscription can be bought in 10-user packs, $390 for 10 yearly users.
- ultramancool 11y agoHave you considered doing a similar offering to JIRA? Currently it's a fraction of the cost, $10/yr/product and has additional features for project management.
- sytse 11y agoGitLab already includes an issue tracker. If you want more advanced features consider using it with a SCRUM tool https://about.gitlab.com/applications/#scrum-boards https://about.gitlab.com/applications/#scrum-boards
- elwesties 11y agoWhy not just use their free hosted service?
- worklogin 11y agoI guarantee you don't need the "middle" pack for a two-dev shop. Either use their hosted solution, host your own CE, or spend $390 a year to get the EE code with minimal support.
- manish_gill 11y agoMoving on from bzr finally. Way to go Mailman. When I did my mailman project, I had to use a clumsy git-to-bzr interface. It wasn't good.
- echelon 11y agoGitlab? Aw, man... My username is taken. I'm echelon at gmail, twitter, github... I hate usernames so much sometimes.
- ralmidani 11y agoGitLab is relatively more free than Github, in the sense that there is a free version of the software you can host yourself. But I still dream of an unequivocally free Git server and Web application, preferably written in Python rather than Ruby. Is there a reason Github, GitLab, and the now-dead Gitorious all chose Ruby?
- sytse 11y agoI think that the availability of gems for Ruby on Rails (compared to Django) really helped.
- smoyer 11y agoHave you tried GitBucket? I've been pretty happy with how that development is moving forwards.
- nsajko 11y agoWhy would you choose python?
- ralmidani 11y agoI've learned a fair amount of both Python (plus Django) and Ruby (off and on Rails). I learned Python first, almost switched to Ruby, then went back to Python. Ruby, on Rails especially, has too much magic. I could simply rely on the magic, but I felt like my growth as a programmer would be inhibited as a result.
- jumpwah 11y agoHave you heard of kallithea [1]? Not sure if it be what you want though because it also supports mercurial (and uses it for its development). But iirc, it's written in python. [1]: https://bitbucket.org/conservancy/kallithea https://bitbucket.org/conservancy/kallithea
- ralmidani 11y agoNice. It's developed by the Software Freedom Conservancy, which inspires confidence. Thank you.