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I disagree. If they were principled, they would have followed through with the original product. Instead they used the money to start building something sligh

I disagree. If they were principled, they would have followed through with the original product. Instead they used the money to start building something slightly different. It was a bait and switch. Giving people's money back is saving face to avoid a huge backlash.

AndrewKemendo 11y ago
So Kickstarter companies aren't allowed to pivot? Things change, other groups get involved. That's just real life, hell, look at Oculus.
- pjc50 11y ago
  Not without consulting their backers. 'Pivoting' means not delivering the item people backed. On the other hand, I think the refunds should be the end of complaints.
  - claudius 11y ago
    Refunds + appropriate interest rates for such a high-risk “investment” + penalty for not upholding their end of a promise + …. I don’t see how they could afford to satisfy any morally (if not legally) reasonable demands.
    - pjc50 11y ago
      It's definitely not an investment (as Kickstarter continually remind you), and there were no penalties agreed upfront. Seriously, do you want more restrictive consumer protection on KS projects than when you buy offered products at retail that have the order cancelled because it wasn't in stock? I'm normally the last person to get libertarian about "you agreed to this contract", but this seems to be one case where it's appropriate. Or does it need more warning that you're not buying an extant product?
      - claudius 11y ago
        AndrewDucker’s comment above, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10002117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10002117 , does not look like “you’re not buying an extant product” to me. In fact, it looks like the exact opposite of that, more like “we’re finished and can start making these now”.
- billyhoffman 11y ago
  > So Kickstarter companies aren't allowed to pivot. In a word, no. Kickstarter explicitly forbids using Kickstarter to create and fund a company. You fund products on Kickstarter and if a company cannot deliver that product without "pivoting" or changing it dramatically, then give me my fucking money back. I'm not funding your adventures in learning how to run a business. I'm funding a fucking product.
Eliezer 11y ago
Speaking as someone who has, several times in his life, tried to create various things, to object to a pivot of this infinitesimal magnitude seems mad. By this standard every successful entrepreneur on the face of the planet is dishonest.

AndrewKemendo 11y ago

So Kickstarter companies aren't allowed to pivot? Things change, other groups get involved. That's just real life, hell, look at Oculus.

pjc50 11y ago
Not without consulting their backers. 'Pivoting' means not delivering the item people backed. On the other hand, I think the refunds should be the end of complaints.
- claudius 11y ago
  Refunds + appropriate interest rates for such a high-risk “investment” + penalty for not upholding their end of a promise + …. I don’t see how they could afford to satisfy any morally (if not legally) reasonable demands.
  - pjc50 11y ago
    It's definitely not an investment (as Kickstarter continually remind you), and there were no penalties agreed upfront. Seriously, do you want more restrictive consumer protection on KS projects than when you buy offered products at retail that have the order cancelled because it wasn't in stock? I'm normally the last person to get libertarian about "you agreed to this contract", but this seems to be one case where it's appropriate. Or does it need more warning that you're not buying an extant product?
    - claudius 11y ago
      AndrewDucker’s comment above, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10002117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10002117 , does not look like “you’re not buying an extant product” to me. In fact, it looks like the exact opposite of that, more like “we’re finished and can start making these now”.
billyhoffman 11y ago
> So Kickstarter companies aren't allowed to pivot. In a word, no. Kickstarter explicitly forbids using Kickstarter to create and fund a company. You fund products on Kickstarter and if a company cannot deliver that product without "pivoting" or changing it dramatically, then give me my fucking money back. I'm not funding your adventures in learning how to run a business. I'm funding a fucking product.

Eliezer 11y ago

Speaking as someone who has, several times in his life, tried to create various things, to object to a pivot of this infinitesimal magnitude seems mad. By this standard every successful entrepreneur on the face of the planet is dishonest.