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Sorry, I don't want to be an "ally for women", that to me sounds like needless victimisation. What I do support is focusing on technology and being excellent to

Sorry, I don't want to be an "ally for women", that to me sounds like needless victimisation. What I do support is focusing on technology and being excellent to each other. Politics are boring. I don't care how many women are on computing. Why would I? I don't. If they want to collaborate and join, they should be welcome but not given special treatment.

k_thorisson 11y ago
But we all need role models to model ourselves after and sadly, there is a lack of women role models in computing. I'm not saying they don't exist - but it is an predominantly male profession. Think back to why you got interested in computers, wasn't it because you had someone to look up to? Perhaps some family member or a computing legend? Women also need women role models and those usually just don't randomly appear - there is a certain critical mass that might have to be created with other methods, perhaps with encouragement from the so called "allies" the article mentions, although that might not be the best way to put it. Young women have to look at it as a viable career option to work in computing, and for that to happen they need someone to pave the way.
- kentrado 11y ago
  > But we all need role models to model ourselves after and sadly, there is a lack of women role models in computing. I'm not saying they don't exist - but it is an predominantly male profession. We can dispute that. >Think back to why you got interested in computers, wasn't it because you had someone to look up to? Perhaps some family member or a computing legend? It was because I saw someone playing videogames in the computer at my mom's job. He was a man, but in no way he was a role model. He could've been an alien and I still would only be fascinated about the computer. I didn't care for the guy at all. >Women also need women role models and those usually just don't randomly appear - there is a certain critical mass that might have to be created with other methods, perhaps with encouragement from the so called "allies" the article mentions, although that might not be the best way to put it. I fail to see why should I care. >Young women have to look at it as a viable career option to work in computing, and for that to happen they need someone to pave the way. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is what you say. What you really want is special treatment for women in computing e.g. quotas, grants and internships. I do not care for any of that. The way I see those things do more harm than good.
- deleted 11y ago
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badsock 11y ago
I'm genuinely curious - do you not think that this chart indicates some kind of distortion in the tech community: http://apps.npr.org/dailygraphics/graphics/women-cs/child.html?initialWidth=614&childId=responsive-embed-women-cs http://apps.npr.org/dailygraphics/graphics/women-cs/child.ht... Bear in mind that the social status of medicine, law, and STEM has (at least by my observations) remained fairly constant during that period, but that of computer science has sky-rocketed. Do you have an explanation for the decline that doesn't call for a change in the way that women are treated in tech?
- kentrado 11y ago
  I don't know why it dropped. I don't presume to know the reason. Although I'm sure there are some people who feel pretty certain about what happened. Why does it matter? If we are already treating each other excellently, as I suggested, and women still won't join computing, then I don't care. If we aren't treating each other in a civil manner, then by all means that what we should do. I'm in no way advocating special treatment for women. I want to be clear about that.
  - sp332 11y ago
    That doesn't seem to be disagreeing with any of the points listed. Is it just the word "ally" you don't like? Treating people equally and civilly is a political decision. It's not happening in a lot of places, and if you really want to step in and change it, that's politics.
    - kentrado 11y ago
      Then you ought to read more carefully. The points listed in the article talk about treating women in a special way.
      - sp332 11y ago
        Point 2 is specifically about equality. What is one of the points you have a problem with?
strangecasts 11y ago
Being "apolitical" is a political stance in itself. By definition, you can't make meaningful changes without giving someone "special treatment".

k_thorisson 11y ago

But we all need role models to model ourselves after and sadly, there is a lack of women role models in computing. I'm not saying they don't exist - but it is an predominantly male profession. Think back to why you got interested in computers, wasn't it because you had someone to look up to? Perhaps some family member or a computing legend? Women also need women role models and those usually just don't randomly appear - there is a certain critical mass that might have to be created with other methods, perhaps with encouragement from the so called "allies" the article mentions, although that might not be the best way to put it. Young women have to look at it as a viable career option to work in computing, and for that to happen they need someone to pave the way.

kentrado 11y ago
> But we all need role models to model ourselves after and sadly, there is a lack of women role models in computing. I'm not saying they don't exist - but it is an predominantly male profession. We can dispute that. >Think back to why you got interested in computers, wasn't it because you had someone to look up to? Perhaps some family member or a computing legend? It was because I saw someone playing videogames in the computer at my mom's job. He was a man, but in no way he was a role model. He could've been an alien and I still would only be fascinated about the computer. I didn't care for the guy at all. >Women also need women role models and those usually just don't randomly appear - there is a certain critical mass that might have to be created with other methods, perhaps with encouragement from the so called "allies" the article mentions, although that might not be the best way to put it. I fail to see why should I care. >Young women have to look at it as a viable career option to work in computing, and for that to happen they need someone to pave the way. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is what you say. What you really want is special treatment for women in computing e.g. quotas, grants and internships. I do not care for any of that. The way I see those things do more harm than good.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

badsock 11y ago

I'm genuinely curious - do you not think that this chart indicates some kind of distortion in the tech community: http://apps.npr.org/dailygraphics/graphics/women-cs/child.html?initialWidth=614&childId=responsive-embed-women-cs http://apps.npr.org/dailygraphics/graphics/women-cs/child.ht... Bear in mind that the social status of medicine, law, and STEM has (at least by my observations) remained fairly constant during that period, but that of computer science has sky-rocketed. Do you have an explanation for the decline that doesn't call for a change in the way that women are treated in tech?

kentrado 11y ago
I don't know why it dropped. I don't presume to know the reason. Although I'm sure there are some people who feel pretty certain about what happened. Why does it matter? If we are already treating each other excellently, as I suggested, and women still won't join computing, then I don't care. If we aren't treating each other in a civil manner, then by all means that what we should do. I'm in no way advocating special treatment for women. I want to be clear about that.
- sp332 11y ago
  That doesn't seem to be disagreeing with any of the points listed. Is it just the word "ally" you don't like? Treating people equally and civilly is a political decision. It's not happening in a lot of places, and if you really want to step in and change it, that's politics.
  - kentrado 11y ago
    Then you ought to read more carefully. The points listed in the article talk about treating women in a special way.
    - sp332 11y ago
      Point 2 is specifically about equality. What is one of the points you have a problem with?

strangecasts 11y ago

Being "apolitical" is a political stance in itself. By definition, you can't make meaningful changes without giving someone "special treatment".